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Log pillars or stone pillars?[edit]

Natural pillar.gif

Just now there was a disagreement between me and the IP address 174.0.159.130 over whether the many natural vertical pillars that the Move Psynergy can push around in both GBA games (pictured to the right) count as wooden logs or pillars of stone. Up until now, I've always thought they were "clearly" logs, but the IP being pretty adamant that these are made of stone prompted me to bring up the graphics of the objects involved to compare them and determine which is which, and frankly, I'm quite surprised at the results.

Log.gif

To the left is the sprite of a log that can be rolled across the ground in Kolima Forest, which in the story was in the process of having its trees be cut down for logs and lumber before Tret's curse struck (leaving many logs lying around on the ground for Isaac to move around). Upon closer inspection, the pillar above does look as though it doesn't quite conform with the coloring and texture of this actual log's bark, and the log has clearly-visible rings that the top pillar doesn't have, making the top pillar look less "loggy" than I first thought.

Stone pillar1.gif

This sprite here, incidentally, represents what is at least a naturally occurring stone pillar of a different sort; you hop across it in dungeons like Dehkan Plateau, but it crumbles under your feet. The way this clearly looks like gray stone (though why stone would crumble instantly is another question) in comparison to the standing pillar above was what led me to assume that the above pillar was a "log pillar", since I never saw the images of the top pillar and the log-on-the-ground sprite side-by-side until just now...

The IP address' argument points out that the pillar that Garet uses behind his house at Vale is referred to in-game by his sister Kay as his "training stone"; this is a valid point, and I thank the IP for bringing that up. (In addition, the top pillar's coloring rather closely matches the earthly walls it is right up against in Vale.) Up until now I thought Kay's line about it being a training stone may have been a mistranslation, since the Golden Sun games each have several known mistranslations and inconsistencies between language versions, but this closer inspection of the graphics seems to diminish that possibility.

The above evidence shows me that I actually was wrong about the top pillar being a log rather than brown earth, so I'd be willing to go through the entire site and replace all instances of "log pillars" with "earth pillars" to fix those mistakes. I also apologize to the IP and admit I made an honest mistake (one that's lasted five years, though >____<). Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 03:46, September 5, 2009 (UTC)

Glad I could help you realize this, though I do apologize for being kinda harsh about it.. Sorry.174.0.159.130 16:23, September 17, 2009 (UTC)


Maybe the Dehkan Plateau pillars collapse because they're a weaker kind of stone, or possibly because of the recent quake caused by the tidal wave and Indra.

"It's a stone Luigi, you didn't make it". LOL But anyways, I think Move, while being the most used psynergy in the games was probably not the best choice to use in Brawl, especially how they thought a hand would literally appear when you cast it (I always thought it was just to represent or something). Earthquake or Titan Blade would have been a bit more creative but I guess the developers were so focused on cramming as much Kirby crap into the game that they just asked someone on the team who played the game for 15 minutes to give them the idea. >_> --Caasi 19:49, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

Meh, anything other than Move wouldn't have had Move's instant blend of "representative" and "likely to be familiar" IMO, as awesome as a Titan Blade would have been. But it's not like they thought a hand literally appeared whenever Move is cast in Golden Sun games (at least it's not a guarantee they thought that); it's more likely they made the design decision to have the Brawl version be a literal hand, specifically to indicate that it's the Golden Sun Move Psynergy on screen and not some weird invisible force pushing opponents away.
(I seem to be a rare breed on the Internet who's generally happy with Brawl and all the stuff that's in it without finding it necessary to QQ about all the stuff that "could have been" but wasn't, or was "unnecessary" - I HATE whenever anyone says that >_< - but that general rant of mine is a separate subject...) Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 06:52, October 4, 2009 (UTC)
Mia says she saw a ghostly hand pushing the statue in Mercury Lighthouse though. Normal people obviously wouldn't see it. Kyarorain 15:48, October 4, 2009 (UTC)
I forgot about that! Well, I guess I was wrong on that part, and to Erik, I just was under the impression that Golden Sun had a larger following than it does (it seemed to on Nsiders and Youtube), which translates to less influence in SSB, but as much as I loved Brawl (the music track was awesome) it was disheartening (for me!) not to see Ragnarok or some cool particle effect attack used. Nothing can be done about it, like you said. All in all it was just my presumptuous nature. And my presumptions are often always wrong xD I didn't mean to offend anyone who was happy with the inclusions with that hot-headed remark. =)--Caasi 16:35, October 4, 2009 (UTC)
LOL, I wasn't specifically referring to you with my off-topic remark about rants either; that's just a general (though strong) opinion I like to spread around forums. =)
Hmm, Mia demonstrates that an Adept in Weyard is able to perceive the ghostly forces involved in Psynergy like Move; however, it's not like Move actually appears as a Master Hand to Adepts in-game. Maybe it actually resembles a colored, gaseous energy pushing earth pillars around, or something like that, but since that doesn't have as much impact from the player's POV-from-above, and may have been difficult to animate, Camelot used a gloved hand to represent the pushing force of Move in-game. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 17:21, October 4, 2009 (UTC)
I'm almost certain she said ghostly force, not ghostly hand. also i remember 1 or 2 concept art for TLA where and adept was using psynergy and it was a purplish white shimmer. i distinctly remember one sowing felix using (what i must assume to be) pound on one pillar while piers was crouching on one that seemed to have just jumped up.Akbaroth 10:12, October 20, 2009 (UTC)
ah, here it is [1]Akbaroth 10:12, October 20, 2009 (UTC)
That art seems to represent the party in Jupiter Lighthouse using the Hover Psynergy on those glowing circular tiles to reach nearby elevated platforms. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 17:27, October 20, 2009 (UTC)

Change in Element[edit]

So… the official Dark Dawn site now lists Move as Venus-based Psynergy. This makes sense, and brings it into line with the fact that 6/7 known users of the move are Earth Adepts, with Garet the only Mars adept known to use it (Isaac, Garet, Felix, Matthew, Susa, Kushinada, Uzume – the later three confirmed by events in Izumo; Uzume uses it, and Susa and Kushinada are said to be able to move the stone pillars at the ruins entrance).

Now, Eeoleo uses something similar to Move when he's trying to Catch the key – the psynergy image is Move, not Catch. But it didn't save Move as he used it… we don't know what he actually used. Now, like with Blast >> Starbust, this will probably wait until the release, but I thought it should be addressed at least. Marandahir 15:50, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Right, the release is frankly what much of the wiki hinges on, because there's going to be a lot of issues concerning how the Dark Dawn content will be grouped with or separated from the GBA content. Will Dark Dawn even have monster lines, and whether it does or not, will familiar monsters returning for DS be covered on existing monster line pages or their own pages? And will directory templates have GBA and DS content mixed in together, split apart within the same template, or split apart into separate templates? And all that does not pay much attention to details like Move here, which is Mars-based and is in the Utility Psynergy section of the Mars Psynergy directory template right now. Presumably it will get into a Venus directory tempate as well, but will it be the existing one or a new, separate directory template that organizes Psynergy based on Dark Dawn's setup? Very unlikely that a clear and obvious answer exists to any of these questions. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 17:45, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
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