Talk:Djinn

My latest idea:

• Many offensive Djinn are exactly the same type of offenses that you would expect from Psynergy attacks like Ragnarok and Heat Wave and unleashes like Titan Blade.
• A good portion of the Djinn must be battled to be obtained, with each such Djinni worthy of a little "walkthrough" about how to reach, and each one being every bit a unique "sub-boss" enemy like you'd expect from Mimics and Crossbone Isle subbosses and thus can have the full battle data treatment.
• Some Djinn with their really unique effects that can be major to gameplay, like Luff being potentially amazing in the battle against Dullahan, and Breeze being twice as strong as the Resist Psynergy and is found really early.
• How images can be used to both illustrate where each Djinni can be found and how each Djinni's battle effect looks in battle.

With all this possible info available, I'm thinking each Djinni is worthy of its own article. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate me here!)} 22:27, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

My two cents

• I definitely agree that it could be a huge help. Many of them could benefit from images and stuff. I think we should keep the basic lists though as a general overview as it is listed in chronological order. It would just be a decent amount of work. Renegade Zebra 22:35, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Of course all the lists would be kept. It would all just be like List of Long Swords. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate me here!)} 23:12, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I was actually suprised that they all didn't have individual pages when i first got here.

Sounds like a good idea to me. I don't know if I'll have the time to help, but I'll see what I can do. Oh, but keeping the individual stat boosts each Djinni offers on the list pages might not be necessary after we're done. Some of you guys might think it's essential, but in my mind it's a fairly minor aspect. I don't mind keeping it, but I don't think it's important enough to keep on a list-type article. The world's hungriest paperweight 16:36, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Naming Info

Should we include the naming origins for the djinn? Some, like Flint are self explanatory but I know that I was confused by Fugue and Serac. So for some of them I think that It would help to have what the names mean. Renegade Zebra 17:10, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually I'm looking for a dictionary right now to try to find out what some of them mean. Unless some one else wants to do it. But most of them are pretty self-exclamitory.Zabbeth 17:16, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Holy crap!!! I just looked it up. NounSingular fugue

 Plural

fugues

fugue (plural fugues)

A contrapuntal piece of music wherein a particular melody is played in a number of voices. At the beginning of the piece, each voice is introduced in turn by playing the melody, after which it consists of a mix of counter-melodies, accompaniment passages, periods of rest, and returns to the main melody (often transformed in some way). Melody can be diminution and/or augmentation of the original melody. Anything in literature, poetry, film, painting, etc., that resembles a fugue in structure or in its elaborate complexity and formality.Zabbeth 17:20, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, that kind of info belongs on the individual articles, but I guess it's worth including. Oh, and thanks for taking a whack at expanding the article. I put the stub temp there because I knew there was more to say on Djinn in general, but I didn't have the time to get started. I guess now I will. The world's hungriest paperweight 17:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Dummy Djinn

In the code, there are two additional dummy djinn for each element, that not only did not appear in the actual game, but weren't even given names. However, they do appear to have some kind of ability coded in them (Called Earth18, Earth19, Water18, Water19, Fire18, Fire19, Wind18, and Wind19 as seen in the item editor). Perhaps if we can get info on the dummy djinn themselves, we can include information about them?

I'm currently working on editing-in the abilities onto items to see their effects. I'll edit in the effects as I figure them out.

Edit: Okay, apparently, those abilities were placeholders as well. When used in battle, nothing happens. HOWEVER, they ARE there. If it turns out that the Djinn do not have stats, either, then they should at least be mentioned as being within the game's code.

RoleOfDATS 20:04, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Can we add to the did you know that if you use halt on djinn in the lost age they have icons like faces,there a little bit bigger then normal faces. Also can we add that Mopa is the strongest nonadept in the game.

Now THAT'S something I never knew about! O_O; I'll add them. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate me here!)} 03:31, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

It's mentioned in the Halt article, I put it in a while back. Isn't it interesting? :) Caasi 05:30, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Descriptions.

Anyone mind adding the rest of descriptions for each of the djinn in TLA? I've already done the first installment's, it's an exhaustive process. =P Caasi (talk) 23:02, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

New Djinn

In case you havn't notice names of new Dijnn have been realesed so there needs to be more added to the list Worldwarz2

Where were they released? Do you have a url that you can put here to show what they are? And are you certain that the Djinn names you're talking about aren't simply the Japanese names of the existing Djinn? Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate me here!)} 17:38, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

i can't currently give one now my computer is down and i need it fixed (im using a friends to type this) im sorry but all i know is that there are more the only name I recall is one of a Mercury Djinn name Marine but thats it. Worldwarz2

I GOT IT! heres the URL http://www.goldensunrealm.com/gsdd/djinn/encyclopedia.php your welcome i think you'll find there are 8 new dijnn makeing it 80 known dijnn in the game!Worldwarz2

Oh yeah, that. Hmm... I would have guessed that's the Japanese name for one of the Lost Age Mercury Djinn, but I'm looking closely at the Japanese text of its name in that box and comparing it to Kyarorain's translation guide, and none of the eighteen Mercury Djinni names resembles that text. Now that is really a mystery: Is that an actual all-new Mercury Djinn in the game? Or is it the case that even the Japanese version itself assigned a different name to one of the existing 18 Mercury Djinn? We still don't even know enough to answer these questions, which is why we shouldn't jump the gun until at least after the Japanese release of Dark Dawn very soon. (If it turns out from looking at the Japanese version that there are a total of 80 Djinn or even higher, that would help us a lot.) Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate me here!)} 17:51, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

um if its 9 per character (in TLA) then that would be 72 for the 8 new characters. if there are new dijnn then there are clearly more playable characters that havn't been realsed yet *COUGH* Takru (i dont know how to spell his name out)Worldwarz2

Not necessarily. In the first GS, there were only seven Djinn per character, but TLA increased that limit to nine. It's possible that, if there are new Djinn in DD, the limit has been increased even further (say, ten or even eleven Djinn per Adept). Or maybe not, we'll just have to wait and see. P.S. It's spelled Takeru. You forgot the "e". The world's hungriest paperweight 19:19, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

OK GSDD has been out for 2 days in Japan how bout those new djinn? Worldwarz2

since I don't want to upload this kind of stuff (as per my user page), but I can see how the community would want them, I've added a folder to my photobucket that you can view at your leisure. It is incomplete (intentionally), but it has ~50 djinn, so *some* of them should be new. Feel free to do whatever you want with them, but credit the source. link Slax01 23:52, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

*headdesk*
I totally forgot to say this, but there are 83 djinn in the database. 23 Venus, 18 mercury, 24 Mars, 18 Jupiter. Go figure. Maybe it has something to do with Isaac and Garet's temporary djinni. W/e, I'm sure it'll make sense once someone's clocked the english version of the game. Slax01 23:59, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Ok i went of GSR (Golden Sun Realm) and what i beleive to be a new dijnn named Vivid was just put on.(http://www.goldensunrealm.com/gsdd/djinn/encyclopedia.php?djinni=vivid) i strongly fell this is a new dijnn and not some renamed japanese version Worldwarz2

Whats This? there apears to be more then 72 djinni alltogether i dont recall Brick bing in the first 2! - Worldwarz2

Dark Djinni

IS it possible for there to be Dark Dijinni just like there are Dark Adepts? and if so what do they look like? -Worldwarz2

Was there a miscount?

According to this article, there are 48 new Djinn, bringing the grand total up to 120. I've been wanting to take a long look at the list of new Djinn to find out for myself exactly how many are new and how many aren't. Although I still haven't had the time, I believe there's been a miscount.

Categories list the number of pages in the category, and I noticed that there are 32 articles in the Venus Djinn category. If you subtract the List of Venus Djinn page, there are 31 Venus Djinn in total. I went and checked the other categories, and it would seem that there are 30 Mercury Djinn, 30 Mars Djinn, and 28 Jupiter Djinn. If you add that all up, we only get 119 Djinn!

I've already checked the list pages and no Djinn are uncategorized. Did whoever added the 120 bit miscount, or am I the one going crazy? HungryPaperweight 15:27, 10 January 2011 (CST)

I just counted 47 new Djinn. That plus the original 72 makes 119. You're not crazy. Tzion 16:45, 10 January 2011 (CST)

Djinn Template tweak needed?

The TBS section only has the djinn introduced in that game. The TLA section only has the djinn introduced in that game, ignoring the carry-overs from TBS. Yet, DD's section includes the djinn that weren't introduced in that game.

Would it not be a better idea to only list the djinn that were introduced in DD, for the sake of consistency? 70.253.85.193 05:34, 6 July 2012 (CDT)

I can understand your argument for consistency, but the two GBA games were made to be together. While Dark Dawn was a stand alone game. On top of that, some Djinn returned, while others didn't in Dark dawn. So it's needed for people to really know what Djinn are available in the game. Consider the template as telling users what Djinn are available to get in that game. ~ dkpat 09:19, 6 July 2012 (CDT)

But were those djinn any different? They behave the same, have the same stat boosts... I really don't think it's that necessary to have them in the template. There's already a list of what djinn appear in the games and how to find them, so for browsing between the djinn themselves it might be a better idea to just list them where they were introduced. 70.253.85.193 01:31, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

I'm leaning toward a different concept entirely: Splitting the template into GBA and Dark Dawn the same way several other templates are split between generations, like Psynergy and enemy lines. I feel it is quite important that templates make it easy for readers to identify the 72 Djinn in the GBA games and the 72 Djinn officially featured in Dark Dawn, and in the official orders at that. That way, a reader can more easily find their way to a Djinni with a general idea on which part chronologically in which game they want. If there are to be future games, the template would probably become way overbig anyway, so it may be more logical to split them sooner or later. Erik the Appreciator 03:49, 7 July 2012 (CDT)

Well, with that in mind, why not do what some other wikis do with recurring things? You'll have one for all djinn, with each one being listed where it was introduced, and then you'd have game-specific ones, so for, let's say, Pewter, you'd have the Overall Djinn Template, where each djinn is listed once (in order and separated by introduction), and below that would be "Djinn appearing in Dark Dawn". Given that there's likely gonna be a fourth game, and I highly doubt that all the djinn will transfer, it might be a good idea to do this now. Of course, if you do this, it'd probably need to be collapsible... 70.253.85.193 19:47, 8 July 2012 (CDT)

I dunno, if we were to do something like that it would raise the question of why not do the same for other general topics' directory templates also splitted by generation like Psynergy and enemy lines. And those two collections of articles, taken together with the collection of Djinn articles, would amount to well over 300 articles that we would likely have to go through and change just for the sake of doing what other wikis choose to do with their templates. Since just having separate GBA and DD templates is basically the norm established by those other pages as they are right now, it would seem to be appropriate and not-overkill to give the Djinn template in all the Djinn pages a similar split and nothing fancier than that. Erik the Appreciator 12:12, 9 July 2012 (CDT)

There's that much work involved in making a template collapsible? Eh, maybe I just read that wrong... still, is there at least a place where all the djinn are listed once and only once? 70.253.85.193 18:28, 9 July 2012 (CDT)

No, he meant that there would be too much work in creating so many new templates. If we created separate templates for overall and game-specific Djinn, we'd have to do the same to other templates too, such as Long Swords and Venus Psynergy, after which we'd have to go to all the articles on those templates and add the new templates to them.

Now, I can understand wanting to have a list somewhere that only mentions each Djinni once, but the templates on our wiki typically don't do that. Instead, it's the list articles where we tend to do those things (for examples see Summons and, again, List of Long Swords). Therefore, I'd like to suggest a different idea: Earlier you mentioned that we already have the list articles, such as List of Venus Djinn, that show which Djinn appear in which games. You brought this up as a reason to change the templates, since the lists already do what the templates do, but that made me realize that our Djinn list articles actually go against the norm in this case. Maybe it would be better if we cut the returning Djinn out of the DD sections of the articles rather than removing them from the templates. The World's Hungriest Paperweight 19:14, 9 July 2012 (CDT)

Well, there does seem to be a Master List of Djinn right now, which attempts to list each Djinni in each game by when it can be found... I'm not even sure if that page is in the ideally-written state right now. It could possibly be written more to serve the purposes of "a place where all the djinn are listed once and only once".

Though, the "work" I was referring to in my post was referring to how at the bottom of pages like Gaia Psynergy series each template requires its own line of syntax to be put onto a page in order for that template to show up on that page. (Syntax like {{VenusPsynergy}} and {{VenusPsynergyDD}}, stacked atop each other.) Modifying the templates themselves wouldn't be enough if you wanted to do something like add "master list" templates in addition to the current templates - to achieve the idea you talked about for Pewter, you would have to paste the syntax for a "master-list template" into Pewter's page, as well as a separate line for a separate template that covers all the Dark Dawn Djinn. That would be an easy edit to an individual page, but there's over 120 Djinn-related articles we'd have to do that same thing for, and right now all of them just have this one same universal Djinn template on them.

I should explain the logic behind the way the directory templates are set up on pages like the Psynergies, since that logic pretty much had been adopted as part of the wiki's manual of style policies due to all the Psynergy and enemy line pages having done this from the start: Each generation of template lists every thing appearing in that generation. Both generations of templates only appear on pages that have to do with stuff that appear in both generations, while for example only the Dark Dawn template will be put on a page like Roaring Dragon Psynergy series, which is about something that has only appeared in Dark Dawn. The need for a master list of Venus Psynergy that has appeared in all generations taken together is supposed to be satisfied by the List of Venus Psynergy article itself. (By the way, the two GBA games get grouped together as one in terms of templates, so there aren't templates that are specific to GS1 or GS2 - they're just either "GBA templates" or "DD templates".)

It is an issue right now that the Djinn pages aren't doing the same thing and having generational Djinn templates only appear on appropriately generational Djinn pages. That one Djinn template will get too big and clutter every single Djinn page too much if Golden Sun 4 adds a lot to it, after all. So, my overall proposal would be this: There be one template on all 72 GBA Djinn taken together, which would look just like the current Djinn template but with the Dark Dawn section taken out, and that template's syntax be put onto the 72 GBA Djinn pages. HP's little note at the Lost Age title part stays in order to explain that all the GS1 Djinn above appear in GS2 as well. Then, there should be an identical-looking template with its main section being the 72 Djinn that appear in Dark Dawn, and most likely there should be a bonus section added at the bottom that lists the 11 guest Djinn from Dark Dawn's prologue. That template's syntax should be put onto the 83 Djinn pages involved. A page that is either the Master List of Djinn or a similar page should satisfy readers who would like a straight listing of 119 Djinn without any names being repeated. Erik the Appreciator 19:29, 9 July 2012 (CDT)

That'll work well. My biggest complaint was that there's no place where djinn are listed once and only once here right now, so I had to rely on my browser telling me which ones I've already looked at when I went to record some statistical data. Since they're not different with each new generation, unlike the Gaia Blade and a few select classes, it was actually a bit irritating to have them listed twice like that. This should do a good job clearing it up though. 70.253.85.193 14:25, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

Well, if that's all, were you aware of the category pages? For instance: Category:Venus Djinn. We should probably have something else too, of course, but these serve as an alphabetical alternative. The World's Hungriest Paperweight 21:14, 10 July 2012 (CDT)

So umm... now that I've avoided the whole thing, What came out of this/will come out of this? ~ dkpat 14:34, 12 July 2012 (CDT)

That to begin with, I or someone else will break off the DD section of the Djinn directory template into its own similar-looking template, and spread the two separate templates separately across each Djinn page the way templates like Template:VenusPsynergy and Template:VenusPsynergyDD are distributed across Venus Psynergy pages. Erik the Appreciator 18:32, 12 July 2012 (CDT)