Category talk:Monster lines

An idea for some new categories

Hey, I was thinking (scary, I know): after all the new character categories, maybe we should do something similar here. I was thinking of making Categories like Monsters exclusive to Golden Sun and Monsters exclusive to Golden Sun: The Lost Age. The reason I went with "exclusive" rather than "in" is because, unless I'm mistaken, most monster lines in Golden Sun return in The Lost Age. I just wanted to hear what you guys think before I tried making them myself, or at least justify the names I chose in advance. The world's hungriest paperweight 15:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

There's of course a lot of lines that appear in both games. I have found out from first-hand investigation that there's only five monster lines from Golden Sun that do not make any return appearances in The lost Age: Ape, Orc, Grub, Living Statue, Tornado Lizard. The Bosses in that game that don't have palette swaps elsewhere in the first game or in the second one are Deadbeard, Fusion Dragon, Kraken, Saturos and Menardi, and Tret. TLA has Aka Manah, Angle Worm, Assassin, Avimander, Blue Dragon, Chestbeater, Conch Shell, Demon, Dino, Doomsayer, Emu, Flame Dragon, Ghost Army, Gressil, Hydra, Kobold, Living Armor, Merman, Mini-Goblin, Minotaurus, Momonga, Mummy, Phoenix, Pixie, Punch Ant, Roc, Ruffian, Scorpion, Sea Dragon, Seabird, Urchin, Wild Wolf, Wolfkin, Wood Walker, Wyvern, Wyvern Chick, and Mad Plant, with the unique bosses being Karst and Agatio, Briggs, Doom Dragon, Moapa, Poseidon, Serpent, Valukar, Sentinel, Star Magician, and Dullahan.

I guess there's enough pages that qualify for exclusive monsters in Golden Sun 1 that making categories for exclusives in both games would work. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate me here!)} 17:48, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, I've got all the one's you've listed. As you may have noticed, I also included pages where at least one of the monsters in the line is exclusive, so the GS-exclusive category wound up bigger than expected (still not as big as its TLA counterpart, though). I guess that may have been a little too flexible, but nobody stopped me so I just kept on going. I don't know if I've got all of the "selectively exclusive" monster lines done, but I do think the GS-exclusive cat is now full. The world's hungriest paperweight 19:14, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

More new cat ideas

Okay, game-exclusive monsters are all taken care of now (I think) and we've gotten started on sorting monsters based on their weaknesses and resistances. Since I came up with these (possibly) great ideas, I figured I'd share a few more. Now, I don't know how many of these are good ideas and how many are just by-products of my overactive imagination, so I was hoping for somebody's feedback.

• Last time I checked, moves like Bind and Luff work on anyone, whether or not they can use Psynergy. I was thinking of either Category:Monsters that can use Psynergy or Category:Monsters that cannot use Psynergy (probably the cannot one) so that people would know who not to waste these moves on.
• Maybe we could make a cat for monsters who attack multiple times in one turn. It wouldn't be very big, but it's an idea.
• A category for monsters with any kind of healing effect: some monsters carry Herbs and other healing items; some, like the Refresh Ball, can use healing Psynergy; the Phoenix monster line with their Regen Dance, and maybe some other monsters, can outright revive fallen allies. These monsters would make priority targets, so I think this is one of my more practical ideas.
• We could possibly sort monsters based on what items they drop, like Weapons, Armor, Consumables, and Miscellaneous items. I don't know how useful these cats could be, but it's an idea.
• This idea just popped into my head, like, ten seconds ago, while I was looking at my "healing monsters" idea. We could make a cat for monsters that can call in other monsters, like Briggs, Star Magician, Fighter Bee, Undead, Ooze, etc. These monsters would also be priority targets...unless you want tons of xp and coins, in which case you'd want to keep them alive as long as possible.

I think there were other ideas, but I can't remember them right now. In the meantime, what do you guys think of this much? The world's hungriest paperweight 21:04, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

These all sound good enough. You can do them however you like. :) I think it's better to have the category for the monsters that do use Psynergy, because it'd be a cat that tells you what you can Bind and Luff. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate me here!)} 21:40, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, I was thinking of making the unable-to-use-Psynergy cat because it would be like saying "Hey! Don't waste your time on these guys!", but I guess the other way around would work too so long as we explain this. I'm planning on making a tally of how many monsters (bosses included) can use Psynergy vs. those who can't. If the difference is big enough I'm going to make the smaller cat, since those guys would be the exception to the norm.

I'd also like to edit my "monster drops" idea. Sorting them based on what type of item they drop isn't so useful, but maybe we could sort them based on the rarity of their drops. Mainly we'd have a cat for items you can't get in any way other than as spoils from battle, and maybe a cat for items with otherwise limited quantities (like forgeable items and Lucky Medals). I think categories like these are much more practical (and a better idea than the original).

The real problem I'm facing is naming the cats. I don't want them all to start with Monsters. That gets too monotonous (no, not Minotaurus). The world's hungriest paperweight 15:16, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I really don't think monotony of the cat names is an issue to worry about, though, since these are all monster categories to begin with. And the only current possible name I can think of right now is "Monsters that drop items with a 1/128 probability". Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate me here!)} 17:03, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I kinda meant "relative rarity" rather than "absolute rarity". It isn't the chance of getting the item we'd sort them by, but how easy it is to obtain the item in general. I like to split monster drops into three different types: ones you can't get anywhere else, ones you can get elsewhere but in limited amounts (I linked to examples last time), and ones you can get an infinite number of without battling (many non-stat-boosting consumable items fall into this category). I don't know if we'd make a cat for the last kind, but I was thinking titles like Monsters that drop unique items for the first one (unique meaning "you can't find them anywhere else", not "one of a kind") and Monsters that drop rare items for the second.

And I know having them all start with Monsters isn't a real problem, but it's something I'd like to avoid if I can. For example, if we make a cat for monsters that can use Psynergy, the title Psynergy-capable monsters would work. The world's hungriest paperweight 22:57, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

I just finished looking over every single monster article, and in some cases I had to check GameFAQs, but I finally have it. Including bosses (but not Djinn), there are 88 monsters capable of using Psynergy and 139 that can't. There are 39 Djinn you have to battle, and needless to say they can all use Psynergy (I think...). So, even if you do count Djinn, there are more monsters that canNOT use Psynergy than those that can. If you don't count Djinn, the difference is even greater, and it seems most bosses can use Psynergy, making the difference greater still when considering just common enemies. I'll admit I might have missed one or two, or counted some monster lines twice, but the fact is there's a sizable difference.

Keep in mind that I considered each monster individually; an entire monster line capable or devoid of Psynergy didn't count as just one for this thing. However, I didn't count each Mimic and Mad Plant individually. In case you're wondering, all Mimics can use Psynergy and all Mad Plants cannot. There are over twice as many Mimics as Mad Plants, so if you want to count them individually (I don't know why) there's less of a difference, but there's still more monsters devoid of Psynergy.

Long story short, I say we make the Psynergy-capable monsters cat. The world's hungriest paperweight 17:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Just stopping by to say I just realized a good reason to make a cat for monsters that attack multiple times per turn: one of the factors in RNG-manipulation is how many actions are going to be taken in the turn.

Normally, at the beginning of each turn, each person (ally or enemy) counts for one...let's call them "RNG-points" for now. But monsters like the Phoenix can attack several times per turn, and so each action they can perform counts for one RNG-point each turn. Since Phoenixes can attack twice per turn, they count for two RNG-points per turn. Dullahan, however, gets three RNG-points.

Long story short, if you're going to manipulate the RNG, it's important to know who can attack repeatedly. (I always like it when I suddenly find justification for a half-baked idea even I'm not too confident about.) The world's hungriest paperweight 22:52, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Djinn cats

I just wanna bring this up now before we get there. Since many Djinn are battled, they should have some of these cats. I think we can all agree on that. What I'm wondering about is if we should put the cats on each individual page, or on the "List of (element) Djinn" pages. After all, most cats we would put on those pages apply to all Djinn of the same element. This may not be my best idea, but I wanted to hear what you guys think. The world's hungriest paperweight 21:28, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

It's been a few days and nobody's responded. Did anyone even notice? Oh well. I guess I'll put the Djinn off for a little bit. If nobody responds I'll just show you guys what I mean with one type of Djinni. If nobody objects to that I'll do the same for all Djinn. The world's hungriest paperweight 15:56, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

It looks like you'd have to have categories for elemental weaknesses and resistances on the overall list pages because all Djinn of an element would HAVE to be resistant to its own element and weak to the opposite element, I assume. If all Djinn have Psynergy abilities than that category should go on the list pages too. Probably the only category I can think of to put on the individual pages are the game exclusivity and the healing abilities. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate me here!)} 17:13, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Exactly what I was thinking (although I was also considering putting the Psynergy cat here instead, don't know if I really would have though). It's nice to know I'm not completely crazy! The world's hungriest paperweight 17:29, 25 June 2008 (UTC)