Talk:Briggs

Sailing Ship

I was under the impression that Briggs' original ship was a sailing ship. Before battling his crew, one of the crew members mentions that Champa had been building such ships already.

As you know, the ship wreckage at the cliffs between Indra and Osenia is the original ship that Briggs used. It was kind of a small ship, and as you can see from the wreckage it had two sails. One would have to presume that the way that ship was used was that the crew was using oars for propulsion, and the sails were used both for steering and for some extra propulsion. This more primitive Champa design is different from the radical-for-its-time Sailing Ship design that Alhafra made: a huge ship propelled entirely by catching the wind in its huge sails, without using any oars at all. That's pretty much the while idea going on there. The only unusual part is that the Alhafran design is the only one that's properly called the "Sailing Ship" while the other ones like what Briggs had are merely ships that sail. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate me here!)} 18:50, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Izumo trading

I thought I had Mind Read everyone in Champa and Izumo, and I never heard of any trading occuring between the two towns. Where does it say they traded? Phimi 22:56, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

In Izumo after the Serpent's been defeated, talk to the innkeeper from the side. He'll say the following line: "Briggs, from Champa, hasn't been by selling much fish lately, so our menu's suffered." And his Mind Read text is "If Briggs's ship doesn't come out soon, we won't be able to get any seafood. Until then, all we'll have to eat is freshwater fish." In other words, Briggs of Champa sells fish to the Izumoans, and I presume that's a main way Champa is sustained in terms of commerce. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate me here!)} 03:16, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Number of Sea Fighters

While it is completely clear that Briggs only had four Sea Fighters, before the battle there are four on deck yet there is one below deck with Briggs. One of the ones on deck even says there's one below deck.

Yeah, that scene makes it pretty unmistakable that there are at least 5. Is it possible that when Briggs calls down the Sea Fighters from above deck, three of them are willing to come down and fight while one of them flees for himself and leaves the group and town forever so that he won't get apprehended by the recently arrived Madrans? That idea can't be ruled out, I think... And I don't think it's provable anywhere that Briggs only has ever had a maximum of four, either. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate me here!)} 02:55, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Just some queries I have

Did the kibombo really share weapons with Brigg's crew? I know that the Kibombo warriors let no-one touch their weapons, due to the very potent poison they wield. I thought the two raids were merely a coincidence. Also, I was sure that Briggs stumbled across Treasure Isle after leaving Alhafra -I thought someone said this, but I can't remember who, but even if no-one did, then it would still make sense because if he got it before the tidal wave, then he wouldn't have resorted to piracy and it should've been lost along with his ship anyway. Slax01 01:11, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

This was something I had a lot of trouble attempting to make rigid sense of because townsperson gossip in Madra giving contradictory information. At the very least, the simultaneous two-group raid leaves different people in town to choose between believing it was a coincidence and believing there was an alliance between the two, and when I wrote this article I would have just reported it like that without deciding between the two. But what made me decide to assume the alliance as fact is that the gossip states the Kibombo knew the layout of the town in advance, and took advantage of that weak section of wall to the left as a result of that knowledge - since the Kibombo had just arrived, they could only gain that knowledge from the sea fighters. I'm not sure where it was stated that the Kibombo would never let anyone else touch or make use of their poison-laden weapon, or even if that would have prevented them from allowing their circumstantial pirate allies to use them, though. It wouldn't be possible for Briggs to have looted that early part of Treasure Isle after fleeing Alhafra on the big sailing ship, though, since before that can happen you can get to Treasure Isle and its chests were already looted. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate me here!)} 01:50, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

The person who says Kibombo won't let anyone have the poison they use on their weapons is the Kibombo item vendor, who complains about not being able to profit from selling the stuff, and though there's nothing to say that there isn't an exception, without evidence to say there is an exception, I see no reason to disbelieve her. As for the positioning of the raid, I always thought that the reason for the Kibombo warriors to be attacking the weak point near the jail was simply because the weak spot was on the west side of Madra, so when they attacked from the gondowan cliffs (also to the west) then they would just naturally run into it if they ran in a straight line (which I see no reason why they wouldn't). Your point about treasure Isle's a good one though, I forgot it could be accessed that early. Slax01 03:14, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

Meh, I frankly suspect that there's probably some sort of translation error/awkwardness going on with the text there in general in the English version that causes there to be several statements that seem to be reliable statements of fact by themselves but end up contradicting each other, making figuring out the true sequence of events difficult. There's a lot of room for assumptions to be made that could end up being wrong. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate me here!)} 03:21, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd have to agree with that XD -either way, there's not enough reliable evidence, so I'm not going to edit the article much (aside from maybe grammar and stuff), I just wanted to know what other people thought on the matter. Slax01 03:30, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

I realize this is an old thread, but personally I was under the impression that Kibombo were the ones who broke the wall. That was how they knew about it. In addition, if you Mind Read the Kibombo hiding in the Gondowan Cliffs, one wonders what happened to the people who escaped from the prison they broke into. If they had been working with the pirates, there's nothing they say or think to indicate they even knew it was Briggs they were releasing.

Revisions: What needs doing

This article has been bugging me for years, but I haven't done anything about it because it's a very difficult and complicated mess. So I thought the first step would be to start a discussion point here to talk about what needs to be done to fix the article.

The first thing I understand that needs doing is to overhaul his "as a boss" section to wiki standards. But there-in lies a major issue: the Sea Fighter redirects here, and yet it is an individual enemy figure in the same enemy line as Briggs, and only appears here (much like the 2 Thieves only appear with the Bandit). We need to isolate out sprites of Briggs and Sea Fighters and give each of them subsections within this page, or else create a separate "Sea Fighter enemy line" page to include them, and have the "as a boss" section here redirect to that page. Briggs plays such a major role in both TLA and DD as an NPC that his role as a boss really deserves a separate page. If this is done, then the Proxians can be overhauled in a similar way, and given separate enemy pages from story pages (they are also sitting in a problematic limbo place). Marandahir (talk) 12:00, 3 February 2014 (CST)

Mmm, the statement that a major character's boss section(s) deserves to be a separate page seems more like an opinion than a fact, though. To me, it always seemed appropriate to keep fightable enemy sections about real characters in the articles about the characters themselves because that's consistent with the logic that a lot of enemy line pages have sections underneath about their role to characterization or plot, segments which don't get their own articles (like the minor plot relevance the Tornado Lizard line has in regards to making Suhalla Desert uncrossable). If we were to start dividing these particular character articles between their lore and fightable components, that would start bringing up questions about so many other cases on the wiki where we'd have to arbitrarily decide which enemy line articles need to have their story sections split off and which character articles need to have their enemy sections split off. (Tret would be another complex example.) For that reason, it appears to me that keeping characters and their enemy roles in the same pages is the "easy way out" of potential arbitrary problems, the same way our playable character articles include sections about their game relevance below their long biographies on the same articles, so at the very least, my priority should just be to make an attempt to finish and format those things in accordance with the current model, and see how well that turns out before we do anything else. Erik the Appreciator (talk) 17:15, 3 February 2014 (CST)

Just want to toss this out on the table: We can always create subpages for the boss battle segments. I don't know if we should, but I wanted to make sure we all remembered that. The World's Hungriest Paperweight (talk) 18:40, 3 February 2014 (CST)

On a second thought, what really needs happening here is a "boss block" for Briggs (and one for Agatio and whatnot), and having an enemy block as well for the Sea Fighter. But this article is awkwardly formatted because it needs to serve both purposes, and enemy line articles are usually written quite differently from character articles. This is written as a character article and doesn't serve the needs of people interested in enemy statistics.Marandahir (talk) 09:15, 6 February 2014 (CST)

What exactly are these needs that the enemy line pages fulfill but the current rewrite of the Briggs page doesn't, though? I'm honestly not sure yet. And would the idea of an enemy data subpage address whatever these issues are? Erik the Appreciator (talk) 12:27, 6 February 2014 (CST)

Enemy Lines have nice cool little format boxes that I don't remember how to make because I don't do wikis that often. These include all the enemy statistics. When I last checked the article, Briggs didn't have them, but he obviously now does. I'm not sure, because I'm now quite confused on the matter. A quick look at Agatio shows that he still doesn't use that format. There are a few other articles like that. Sorry for making a fuss. Marandahir (talk) 16:35, 6 February 2014 (CST)

That's because I rewrote that part of the page shortly after my first response in this topic ;) I filled out the missing data for the infoboxes for Saturos and Menardi since then, and I'll write the infoboxes for Karst and Agatio's enemy appearances soon, since some of the boss characters not having their enemy section infoboxes written was a to-do that I never got around to doing. Erik the Appreciator (talk) 17:06, 6 February 2014 (CST)

Ah, well, that was the chief point of raising this topic in the first place.  :) Thanks for getting around to it; it's a project that I wouldn't want to do myself – my work here these days chiefly are fixing minutia, the ever-ongoing Japanese translation work (that's been on a back-burner for a while, but I have old spreadsheets of all the Japanese names in Kana/Kanji as I encountered them, so I could get back on them), and things I notice as I play through what I consider a masterpiece update/rebalance of the game.Marandahir (talk) 18:08, 6 February 2014 (CST)

Ten years on, and there's still a revision-need that I don't know quite how to deal with: What level enemies are Briggs and the Sea Fighters? A bunch of boss pages are missing their levels, while the location pages for them have the levels included, but Briggs and Sea Fighters are a rare example where they don't have the levels on either this page nor the encounter details on the Alhafra page (where Eastern Alhafra redirects to) nor the Sailing Ship page (which is treated separately from Alhafra despite being located in Eastern Alhafra due to its role in Dark Dawn). Currently working on a bunch of enemy location and level minutia as I run into them in my NSO replay, but if Erik or anyone else happen to know the internal level assignment of the Sea Fighters and/or Briggs, that would be a good update to add here.Marandahir (talk) 16:46, 31 January 2024 (CST)