Talk:List of Fists and Claws

Fists Vs. Claws

There is an in game distinction between claws and knuckles. All claw weapons are categorized as "claw" while knuckles are listed as "fist". In addition, I have noticed that the two types seem to use different weapon experience meters. This sets them apart from ankhs which are still considered staffs in game though they can't be equipped by everyone. As a result, it should be discussed whether these two weapons should be given separate pages. On the one hand they are used by the same character and there are so few of them that separating them may be unnecessary. On the other hand, Long Swords and Axes have separate pages and prior to Dark Dawn no character could wield one without the other. Tzion 13:19, 3 January 2011 (CST)

That first hand is what I would refer to. Only Sveta can use these few weapons, and the template covers claws and fists the same way there is only one page and one template for Staffs and Ankhs (which has more differences between them). Golden Sun 4 would have to do a lot in order for claws and fists to be split up like that. Erik the Appreciator 13:23, 3 January 2011 (CST)

I noticed that too, but at first I just thought I was confusing myself. I didn't know they had separate experience, too! Despite that, though, I'm with Erik: Right now, they're too similar to justify separating them. Just like how we combine hats and crowns into a single list. HungryPaperweight 13:37, 3 January 2011 (CST)

Just because there's not many of them doesn't mean that they should be lumped together like that, though. Keeping in mind future games in the series, on top of the fact that the game's data counts them as two different weapon types (similar to Staffs and Ankhs). Also keep in mind that this could lead to confusion among fans as to why the weapon experience from their mastered Umbra Knuckles aren't helping their Mythril Claws any. Plus, what is the worth of a wiki if it is not accurate? Just lumping them together... And Unlike Hats and crowns, which can be argued to be exactly the same as everyone who can use one can use the other, weapons have already shown split equipability. Staffs and ankhs show this, since Ankhs are unique to Himi and Rief in Dark Dawn, while any of the mages can utilize a staff. I think they should be separated, or at least go out of the way to let people know that they're two separate, yet similar weapon types. 75.60.182.188 12:58, 22 March 2011 (CDT)

First of all, the main reason they're grouped together isn't because there's so few of them, but because they're both exclusive to a single character who just so happens to not be able to equip any other weapons. If GS4 distinguishes the differences between fists and claws more (and hopefully it will), we'll no doubt split them. Second, have you actually read the article? We're not claiming that Fists and Claws are the same type of weapon. In fact, it's explicitly stated that they're separate weapon types. The World's Hungriest Paperweight 13:05, 22 March 2011 (CDT)

Blame the guy who redirected me here from where I suggested the idea that Staffs and Ankhs be differentiated. 75.60.182.188 13:50, 22 March 2011 (CDT)

Just for the record: That was me, too. The World's Hungriest Paperweight 17:20, 22 March 2011 (CDT)

It's worth noting that Claws and Knuckles also have completely different sets of Unleashes, with no shared entries to the best of my knowledge. This is similar to how Bows have completely unique unleashes. I'd personally split Claws and Knuckles into separate pages, or at least completely separate sections on the same page. Really the only major thing they have in common is being Sveta-exclusive. spweasel 15:52, 22 March 2011 (CDT)

Right, separate sections on the same page is what I'd go for. And the title of the page should be changed to List of Fist Weapons, which encompasses the fists and the claws. Erik the Appreciator 16:26, 22 March 2011 (CDT)

While the subject is still fresh, should we consider changing the name of List of Hats and Crowns to something like List of General Headwear? It does cover more than just Hats and Crowns, and it would be too much work to list all the different types. The World's Hungriest Paperweight 18:58, 22 March 2011 (CDT)

As a matter of preference, I would suggest List of Generic Headgear instead. "General" sounds a little like it should include all headgear, including Circlets and Helms, while "Generic" better describes its most notable feature - being equippable by anyone. Not to mention I wouldn't be able to see the page's name without thinking of that silly hat Napoleon is always drawn as wearing. spweasel 22:17, 22 March 2011 (CDT)

I'm not sure how you made the connection between "headwear" and "Napoleon", but beyond that your idea sounds good. I was just going with the title on the template ^_^; The World's Hungriest Paperweight 23:16, 22 March 2011 (CDT)

Napoleon was a General before he was Emperor. spweasel 01:38, 23 March 2011 (CDT)

Oh, I get it. General Headwear. Heheh. The World's Hungriest Paperweight 09:47, 23 March 2011 (CDT)

Either way, A List of Common Headwear or General headwear looks better than 'generic', especially since some of these 'generics' are quite unique in Golden Sun. However, without anything save for text to differentiate them - not even gender differences, unlike the Tiara vs Circlet argument, there's really no reason to separate them. Weapon types have always been differentiated, though. Even as early as TBS, Staffs and Ankhs had different sprites. Sure, there's like... three ankhs, and that's it, but it's still there - hell, Mia and Rief even use an Ankh in their official art, as opposed to a staff. While I understand the argument to list them together while mentioning the separation, Hats and Crowns have no such luxury. Anyone who can wear one can wear the other, so to me, when it comes to the three types of gear: Armor, Cloth, and Magic, they all fall under the Cloth type.75.60.182.188 00:01, 23 March 2011 (CDT)

As previously noted, List of General Headgear sounds too much as if it is a General List of Headgear, i.e. one that includes all head equipment. You bring up a good point about "Generic", but "Common" is no better, since both make it sound like they are lists of non-Artifact head equipment.

Maybe we should go with something like "List of Miscellaneous Headgear". The biggest drawback I see is that nobody can spell "miscellaneous". spweasel 01:38, 23 March 2011 (CDT)

My vote goes to "List of Basic Headgear". Anything else seems like it would be attaching some unnecessary meaning to it. --TheOthin 04:00, 23 March 2011 (CDT)

We could try to separate the three between Heavy, Light, and Mage armor... So saying it's Light Headewear, kinda like how helmets would be Heavy Headwear, and circlets Mage Headwear. Another way would be Armor, Cloth, and Mage, but Light would fit things like the Chainmail Coif better than Cloth...75.60.182.188 04:27, 23 March 2011 (CDT)

"Basic Headgear" sounds good to me. After all, they can be equipped by all party members, making them sort of "default" equipment. On another note, I wasn't expecting this conversation to go on quite so long, so why don't we continue this over on the appropriate talk page. The World's Hungriest Paperweight 09:47, 23 March 2011 (CDT)