Talk:Colosso Gladiator enemy line

Boss or not?

Should these guys be considered bosses, at least for GS1? Sure, you don't have to defeat any of them, but you are guaranteed to encounter Azart, at least, and beating him guarantees an encounter with Satrage, etc. I suppose they could be considered optional bosses, like Toadonpa and Deadbeard. The World's Hungriest Paperweight (talk) 13:19, 10 March 2013 (CDT)

I thought you were guaranteed to fight all three, but you could lose on the third? I thought it still wakes you up in the Satrage battle? And even if it was the case that losing to Satrage ended the Collosso event, you'd still have to fight Satrage, since you'd ALWAYS wake-up from a loss with Azart. They're an optional boss-fight in GS2 (albeit weaker in difficulty, similar to the door bosses of Crossbone Isle in comparative difficulty), and I do believe you have to fight all three, but losing to Navampa is okay in GS1. Marandahir (talk) 16:01, 10 March 2013 (CDT)

Marandahir's right about waking up after either Azart or Satrage because beating those two are required to advance the first game, but I've never considered them the least bit "bossy", any more than Mimics and Djinn at any rate, so I've always been extremely apprehensive about giving them the boss label in GS1 or GS2. Erik the Appreciator (talk) 18:05, 10 March 2013 (CDT)

Well, it's been a while since I fought these guys, so I can't remember 100% what happens if you lose. But that's completely besides the point. The point is that these are truly unique enemies encountered during a scripted event, mandatory or not. They're not really anything like the Mimics and co., who are encountered repeatedly (though not indefinitely) and are slightly different each time. I'm not really sure what, if anything, disqualifies them from boss-hood. The World's Hungriest Paperweight (talk) 19:20, 10 March 2013 (CDT)

The difference, I guess, is that they don't have the HP totals that bosses tend to. Still, fighting one-on-one, they're pretty tough. I've ALWAYS considered them bosses, though again, in GS2, I considered the option fights against the Bandit and Thieves and these guys as more like the door-bosses of GS1 – unique, boss-like, and possibly dangerous, but not possessing particularly huge HP totals for a 4 person+ party. Marandahir (talk) 20:35, 10 March 2013 (CDT)

I'll admit that these guys have less HP than most bosses, but that can easily be explained by the fact that you fight the Gladiators one-on-one, rather than four-on-one like most bosses are. For example, these guys are flanked on both sides of the plot by the Kraken and the Storm Lizard. The Kraken has 2400 HP - 600 HP, if divided evenly between the four party members - and the Storm Lizard has 2900 HP - 725 HP per party member. Now let's look at the Gladiators: Azart has 450 HP, Satrage has 570 HP, and Navampa has 820 HP. If you were to multiply these values by four, you get 1800 HP for Azart, 2280 HP for Satrage, and 3280 HP for Navampa. I'd say, given the one-on-one circumstances, all of the Gladiators have boss-level HP. The World's Hungriest Paperweight (talk) 21:17, 10 March 2013 (CDT)

Well, one could also note that the gladiators in the first game give gameplay that's quite unlike any traditional enemy or boss in any game - in GS1, you have the only one-on-one fights in the series thus far, featuring your Isaac without even any of his own gear. I guess the reason I never thought of them as bosses in GS1 was that the game basically handles them as specially-constructed portions of a mini-game/sub-game that's relatively self-contained from the rest of your quest. At least with every boss currently listed in the Boss directory template, you have your normal full party, and the capacity to prep them all with their own gear before triggering the boss. As for why their GS2 event fight and that of the Bandit and Thieves are not really boss-style encounters in The Lost Age either, well, those are highly trivial "battles" that are only as "difficult" as the Mimics and Djinn (which was really what I was comparing last post). Erik the Appreciator (talk) 21:41, 10 March 2013 (CDT)

Just to get this out of the way, I've never been arguing in favor of their TLA iteration being treated as bosses. I'm just talking about in GS1. As for the minigame aspect, I'll admit that the battles with these three are different than any other battle in the series, but that doesn't change the fact that they are enemies that you do battle. They aren't common enemies, either, that you can keep hunting and fighting over and over again, or just avoid altogether. In some ways, they're a lot like Moapa and his Knights at Trial Road. I'll admit right now that it's not quite the same, since with Trial Road you still have your entire party and have some control over how much power you give up. However, your performance during both the Colosso Finals and Trial Road have an effect on both your power and the power of your opponents. I'd say that, despite their differences, there are enough similarities for the Gladiators to be considered bosses.

Something else just occurred to me. Remember the battle with Agatio and Karst? At first you just have Felix and Piers, making it a two-on-two battle. Again, I'll admit right now that it's not quite the same, since Jenna and Sheba show up before you really have a chance to win. Still, the limited party is part of the script and has nothing to do with a minigame. Just something to take into consideration. The World's Hungriest Paperweight (talk) 23:44, 10 March 2013 (CDT)

Eh, alright, they can be counted as bosses if they can be compared to the Moapa/Knight boss set from TLA's Colosso-equivalent "sub-game". Erik the Appreciator (talk) 01:08, 11 March 2013 (CDT)