User talk:Erik the Appreciator

ROMs
I know I'm probably poking at a rather hefty gorilla with this, but just curious as to what our course of action will be in regards to any media we would normally acquire by way of ROM images... Don't want to end up like Seribii.net, if you know what I mean. Caasi 01:44, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you referring to the cease and desist controversy over a month back? The full story with that was that right around/shortly after the release of Pokemon Black and White and the start of the fifth generation, Nintendo officially held it to be a violation of their intellectual property for unofficial sources like fans to post screenshots of the game right at that point in time, and on this basis they warned the two most prominent Pokemon fansites on the net - Serebii and PokeBeach - to take down the images showing all the newest Pokemon and in-game screenshots from late-game and the like. As far as anyone can discern, the ultimate reason Nintendo ended up doing that when they didn't do such a thing in all the previous generations is that by now, Pokemon has indeed grown into such a world-class franchise that the world's eyes are constantly on it, and so Nintendo was attempting to dissuade day-one visual spoilers. (Though it does seem that as the future progresses and events like the English release of B&W take place, it would become more and more okay for fansites to post said visual material.)


 * PokeBeach's webmaster wrote an extremely detailed account of it all in this news story - very long, but if you didn't read it, I'd advise you to if you're concerned about ROM screenshots and stuff. But one of the main points is that none of what Nintendo was being all weird about was motivated by the fact that the offending screenshots were taken through ROMs.


 * It's hard to say how relevantly this applies to Golden Sun: Dark Dawn and the ability to post screenshots from the ROMs of the Japanese version, considering things like Golden Sun being nowhere near as much of a lucrative franchise (but it's still a notable property nonetheless, given that it's always in GFAQs' Top Ten DS games for FAQs and message boards). We wouldn't know until we're legally warned whether posting screenshots of late-game content right away opens us up to C&Ds even if we claim the images as Fair Use and specify how the images were created in the images' descriptions; perhaps all we can be reasonably sure of is that we're safer posting English-language screenshots from the English ROM once that is released over here in a month. Since this is ultimately an English-speaking site for American readers, I suppose we should try to dissuade people from posting Japanese-language screenshots everywhere for the next month... Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 05:37, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the read. It kind of fell out off my radar for a little while, and was nagging at me as November 29 came closer. That aside, the images without text would be somewhat appropriate, I assume? Caasi 21:24, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I dunno about how much text would have to do with the whole equation... Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 21:25, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Apologies, I suppose I'm on a different tangent now: I'm referring to any images that might pop up regardless on the wiki and whether these should be dissuaded/encouraged for containing/lack of Japanese text, in line with your American readership statement. An opinion on Japanese release content in general would be helpful. Caasi 21:40, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm. It probably wouldn't be a problem to have screenshots with Japanese-language text on it if the same scenes from the English version can be screenshotted later. It depends on how necessary various users of the wiki feel to have certain images now rather than in a month. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 22:02, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Orgins of Sheba "maybe" confirmed.
This seems to confirm that Sheba is indeed from Anemos, I was just wondering if this should be waited until it is postively confirmed before any any edits to Sheba's page ensue. I will also post the the translation of the section that says the info if you want me to. Ok here it is. Ok then i'll go add it to the speculation part of the page for now.

Will the Secret Behind Sheba's Birth Become Clear?

Hiroyuki: ... I wonder if it will. Shugo: I wonder (laugh).

Sheba, who fell from the sky, traveled with Felix to search for the secret of her birth, but she ended up empty-handed. Did the Anemos village she fell from disappear from the sky, too...?

Sheba: Felix remembers... I have a reason to be traveling with you...


 * What exactly all that text there translates to is important, so you should post the translated text here first so that I can see it before we do anything else. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 01:05, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * That strongly hints at it, yes, but all that should amount to at this point in time is to support what the Speculations section of the Sheba article currently says about her. This Translation should probably be put at the bottom of the Speculations section. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 01:34, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Spoilers and stubs.
Well, after having the ending boss spoiled for myself, I have to ask what our course of action will be on articles like this. I mean, I understand that the page will reappear, like Noble's would have, but it doesn't even have the accurate name of the character. I know we have to let things like this slide more than back at E3, but... Caasi 20:31, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I should warn you that when you're on a site like a user-contributed wiki, trying to avoid spoilers on the upcoming big product of the wiki's subject matter is like stepping through a minefield, and the only real way to avoid the mines is to not step into the minefield at all, if you catch my analogy. But the plausibility of getting lots of spoilers for a possible Golden Sun 3 is something I accepted long ago as I was starting out on the wiki; even though at the moment I don't know yet where the final boss battle has been said to take place, I'm pretty sure it's only a matter of time before someone else tries to post it and I come to know about it before I should. (Though to be frank, I seriously was expecting a lot more of a flood of Japanese-version information to be put into the wiki by various IPs trying to be helpful. I'd say we've so far been quite lucky and mercifully unspoiled.)
 * As for the actual page itself, perhaps Slax or someone else with the Japanese version can answer for us: Is this guy referred to by any name throughout the game? That's really the only issue in an otherwise technically logical page to have. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 23:30, November 2, 2010 (UTC)

Slax is certainly our most viable candidate, it's moreso the IP problem that worries me, and that the contributions they make are less than accurate due to translation. Can't be avoided, but you are right, we have had it quite good, and this is a wiki, after all... Basically, is our policy to now add whatever we know about the story from the Japanese release date on? Caasi 00:01, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I really don't know what's the best way to go about it. I guess start new "introductory versions" of articles for anything new like previously unmentioned characters, towns, summons, etc., and then only complete them with their respective spoiler material once the English version is released? I'm going to define an "introductory version" of a page as a page that is like Heart right now, which isn't truly a spoiler because it doesn't have information like whatever happens with her later on. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 00:18, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

His name is *probably* porutemono, or something like that. I can upload what I think is his database entry if desired. Translation not done by me. Slax01 09:47, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

Unleash Images
Thanks for the walkthrough for uploading pictures onto articles. Huge help! Too bad these are all gonna be taken down in about a week; I mean, Dark Dawn is coming out on Thursday/Friday, so then the English pictures can be uploaded on and replaced with the others. Oh well, now I can use what I learnt today to hep upload the English Unleashes onto Golden Sun Universe =D

Again, thanks a bunch, SonicTurbo97 18:27, November 24, 2010 (UTC)SonicTurbo97SonicTurbo97 18:27, November 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Anytime, but I've got even more upload walkthrough for you: any image can be replaced with an updated version. When you go to an image's page, you'll see near the bottom an option called "Upload a new version of this file". When you start taking the same Unleash images off the English ROM, simply use that feature so that updated English language images will take the same names as the current Japanese images like File:Bad Omen.jpg. That way, you won't have to upload separately named images and go through the trouble of replacing each image on an article by article basis, and I won't have to delete leftover Japanese images that aren't used anymore. For each image you upload the new version of, then click on the Edit button in the image's own page so you can change the "Japanese" in "A screenshot of the Japanese version of Golden Sun: Dark Dawn" summary text into "English". It would also help to add "Taken myself with a DS emulator" at each of these times, just so the image page's summary will be complete. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 18:47, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

Curiously
Well right off the bat, I'll let you know who I am, so you know where this is coming from. I'm the same Axiomist that operates WiKirby, and had a founding role in NIWA. (Nintendo Independent Wiki Alliance) I pretty much balance my online work with WiKirby and NIWA stuff. Anyhow, lately there's been some talk of NIWA needing a Golden Sun Wiki to fill that gaping hole in what wikis are offered there.This brings us to a forked road, we could go through all of the trouble of building one up ourselves, or (what we'd really prefer) include Golden Sun Universe. I'm positive you and the Golden Sun community are aware of SmashWiki, Donkey Kong Wiki, Animal Crossing City, Pikmin Fanon, Pikipedia, and Arwingpedia moving from Wikia after the Oasis and Terms of Service mess. Its a shame it happened, but its not like Wikia didn't know the communities were unhappy with the changes being forced on them. They simply placed money over the community, again.

I haven't looked around here much before, so I have no idea how you guys feel about the matter. I've talked to quite a few NIWA senior staff members, and Archaic (owner/webmaster of Bulbapedia & Bulbagarden) himself is willing to host your wiki and even pay the costs of a domain. So no one here will need to come up with any money at all. However, if you do decide to pursue your own hosting and domain, that's cool too. In either case, it would still be your wiki and you'd have full control of it, the main difference is that you'd have more control of it. You could add extensions you want, size the article body however you'd like, implement a skin more suitable, or whatever really; for any of the things no one around here can do, the whole network of NIWA likely has someone that can and will do it.

Well that should be enough to consider at once :p Archaic and I are interested in hearing from all of you guys. If you want to pass messages in private, you can contact us on skype (axiomist or archaic.mukashi). My email is enabled here, but if you want to get ahold of Archaic send to mukashi@bulbagarden.net, include NIWA in the subject and he'll respond to you from his private email addy. Axiomist 05:33, November 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm certainly aware of what various other wikis did in response to the controversy about the Oasis skin, though I don't know anything about this "Terms of Service mess" you mention. Was there a change in its Terms of Service that entails something serious that actually inhibits what kind of content wikia wikis are allowed to have, or something? Do this wiki's thousands of images all tagged with a generic "fairuse" licensing template, as opposed to how many other wikis have a variety of more specific and detailed license templates, now have more risk or whatever? Because when the new look was put in place, it seemed to me like this wiki adapted well, with the background and other theming I had made for it and how the fixed page width doesn't truly appear to make articles screwed up in space and infobox terms (in my perspective, anyway). Literally probably the only thing about Oasis I don't like is how photos always have an "Added by [user]" notice in their thumbnails.
 * I frankly never considered doing what you're now offering, but right now I'd need to know about whether there are advantages concerning, I dunno how else to describe it, "image-licensing security" that NIWA offers over Wikia. Thanks in advance for explaining... Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 06:09, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * We realize you did the best you could with the skin based on their requirements. I wouldn't think this is how you would want the wiki to look if given a chance to work with limits of your choosing. One thing in the works from NIWA is the creation of our own license. Archaic teaches at a college and is familiar with the legal writing necessary. As it is now, we simply go with GFDL and CCBYSA, GFDL protects your content from theft by imposing unreasonable limits on the second party. The terms of use changes (so far) are spelled out here by Carter Sannse here. No mention of the image deal, other than that Admins are not allowed to remove the uploader's attribution. As a commercial for-profit site, Wikia might be held to different terms than a non-profit fanbased wiki. But I'm no expert on licensing matters. my main contact for that isn't online tonight. My basic understanding is that lines are drawn when it comes to profit, and fair use generally means, a few sample images from say a illustrated book; copying the entire book would be a violation. Anyway, both current licenses are for general works including music and art. The NIWA license is intended to be specifically crafted for what we do. Since that's been one area that interested me the least other than having it done; I haven't kept up with the progress on it. I'll try to find out what's going on. Axiomist 06:37, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * True, this skin is part of that adaptation I did for the sake of not looking bad. But it does sound like there are various ways this wiki would benefit from what the different NIWA setup offers. Since this alliance of Nintendo wikis looks like it will be something mainstream and popular, and since this wiki is getting a relatively large amount of traffic from the big upcoming Golden Sun game release, it does seem like a good opportunity... I just wonder how much work that's going to entail and what happens with the "copy" of the wiki that would be "left behind" on Wikia. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 06:49, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately it is quite a lot of work. We do have an experienced slate of people that moved from the other wikis, Greenpickle and Adam have refined some scripts and tools using Wikia's own export and MediaWiki's importing. So it would be easier to do than the last migrated wiki, and much easier than the first :p The only real work would be skinning the new home. On that, although WiKirby and MetroidWiki.org have great skins, we haven't found more people with enough free time to devote to a new skin. I'm certain Steve would offer tips on how he created the skins for those two wikis, if you or anyone else wanted to be dedicated to that task. Steve has been working on a custom skin for ZeldaWiki, StarFoxWiki, and Animal Crossing Wiki, so I'm not sure he'll be free immediately.
 * From what I've gathered concerning the other wikis that left, Wikia refuses to remove the copy. But actually making the copy and running with it is fair game if the community of active editors agree. TFWiki.net and Wikia's Transformers Wiki are a pretty good example of what happens. The bulk of the community moved and the independent wiki is extremely customized and leading the article count by ~5000 articles. The main pages of those two wikis pretty much say it all. Sad but true, many people are driven to work on what they see as the better looking site. I learned that a long time ago and have been making WiKirby's Main Page look as good as I can.
 * Well, it's time for me to uncharacteristically get some sleep. I notified others in NIWA to this discussion to see if they can help clarify any of the above and future points. I think most Wikia wikis thrived with massive inter-organization crosswiki editing and with the sheer number of migrants, the Nintendo related wikis that opt to remain here would see subpar active editors by comparison. Interestingly, the Animal Crossing Wiki is filling with spam. I'd give it 50-50 odds they decide to delete that one to eliminate the hassle.Axiomist 07:27, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, it's time for me to uncharacteristically get some sleep. I notified others in NIWA to this discussion to see if they can help clarify any of the above and future points. I think most Wikia wikis thrived with massive inter-organization crosswiki editing and with the sheer number of migrants, the Nintendo related wikis that opt to remain here would see subpar active editors by comparison. Interestingly, the Animal Crossing Wiki is filling with spam. I'd give it 50-50 odds they decide to delete that one to eliminate the hassle.Axiomist 07:27, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Probably not important, but looking at how Bulbapedia's image pages for its most major images - the official Sugimori artworks for all the Pokemon - use simply worded and straightforward templates to express all the licensing and fair-use-claim stuff it seems to need, I'm personally not so concerned anymore about how all of this wiki's screenshots only have a template to claim an assertion of fair use without going into more specific details.

Now, I wonder if I can be provided any sort of timeframe for what we can expect to happen in the near future in regards to NIWA's aim to add Golden Sun Universe to its collection - like how long do we wait before anything happens or is announced, etc... Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 06:39, November 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * I spoke with Koroku, the owner of Wikimon, since he's been one of the people wanting to create a Golden Sun Wiki for NIWA. I figured it'd be best to unite the interested parties with the existing wiki for a migration. That way growth occurs for sure! When we first started talking to Wikimon, I had to put aside that I know nothing of the series and judge the wiki for what it is and decide if we would affiliate with them. I was impressed by a lot of the templates and page formatting they use, I learned to use gradients, scrollbars, and sooner or later tabs. Their wiki also can change colors daily and tons of other awesome features. So as far as a skilled partner for a wiki set up goes, they would be my first choice any day. Greenpickle has expressed interest in the CSS side of a skin creation, which leaves the image work unassigned, as far as I know. Greenpickle is the primary bureaucrat on Pikipedia.com, one of the wikis that migrated from Wikia following the changes, and one of the more technically experienced with moving.


 * The timeframe and announcement would be totally in your community's control. NIWA doesn't force anything, we even have a pending member, but are waiting until they feel ready Fire Emblem Wiki. I think Koroku can have a setup ready in under 24 hours. Axiomist 05:15, November 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Excellent. I would say that, if GSU's going to be moved/copied over to NIWA, it should be before the English release of the new Golden Sun game within 6 days so as to more-or-less herald the start of the new phase of both the wiki and the game series itself. I would hope for that to be the timeframe. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 05:43, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Annnnd hello! Name's Greg, Koroku, whatever you wanna call me. Like Axiomist said, I'm the owner/runner guy of Wikimon. I'm not all that involved in the day to day runnings - I just kinda hang out in the background and make sure things run smoothly. As you can obviously see from my contributions . =P
 * I have a decent server, and we're pretty sure it would be able to hold another wiki or two, so if you'd be interested, I'm game.
 * My terms are pretty simple: I'll do it for free, but you can't make anything off of it. So if you're okay with ads, they're my ads... same with donations. I'll also need admin access for myself and one other person... otherwise, you're pretty free to run with it.
 * Yeah, going independent would give you a lot of freedom. You can add any mods you want to it (I'll give you FTP access if you want it, or you can bug me to add the mods) and pretty much customize it however you want.
 * If you're interested - and the community too - you can reply here or contact me some other way . Hope to hear from ya! Aredmoon 05:53, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I can keep my long-established status as at least a sysop on the wiki's new location, right? XP
 * Of course I don't have any issues with ads and stuff, and neither before nor now would me or anyone else ever have thought of making anything off this site. ;) Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 06:06, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Got another way we can talk? Especially with a 6 day crunch... Aredmoon 06:17, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Afraid not, my talk page here is the only way. But more importantly, of course it doesn't have to be a 6-day crunch at all; that's just something I said assuming that this whole thing was somehow going to be something that could be done quick and easy. Otherwise it really doesn't matter at all if it takes a whole month. Sorry if I put you on edge there. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 06:20, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * There are apparently tools that can help with the move, like this . Also, you should make sure it's okay with rest of the community. If that tool works, we theoretically should be able to complete a move within a day or so.
 * So take a few days and make sure it's cool with everyone - figure out a domain and stuff that you'd guys want to be under (goldensunwiki.com or similar) and we can get it going.
 * Might be fun if we could "open" the new wiki on the release date. :) Aredmoon 06:27, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * ps: and don't worry, no staffing issues would be changed. I'd just need access so I can fix stuff if it breaks. :D
 * Alright, I'll leave this space below open for other users to post their thoughts in. This is actually quite a small community right now, with only a few established on-and-off contributors, a few now-inactive contributors who were heavy before, and the only other bureaucrat being User:Dracobolt (the one who gave me my staffing position to begin with =P), who I notified off-site. Generally, with the way RecentChanges has only like a page worth of changes a day, I'm reasonably sure at least some of these folks will see this. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 06:36, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'm more of an avid reader than the community, but I think this place would benefit from becoming independent. I think you should go for it. SCM - Talk 08:11, November 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * It seems like an awfully convenient transaction to me. My two biggest gripes with the new (and old) interface were the ads, obviously, which really mess up the page layout for IPs/non editors, and the general performance when loading anything in general, in particular the main page. It's been giving me some grief since the update, and I don't know if any other editors encounter it (my cache is pretty tidy most of the time) but I dislike this Oasis regardless. Anyways, if dedicated servers and a wiki running a leaner interface is what NIWA is offering, I am strongly in favor. Caasi 21:35, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

Sure, sounds like a good idea to me, this new skin is absolute rubbish. Slax01 22:25, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

So, what do you guys want for a domain? Let me know so I can grab it :) Aredmoon 00:01, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I'd guess the url name should be as straightforward as goldensunwiki, like several other wikis on NIWA do it (www.mariowiki.com for Super Mario Wiki, www.ssbwiki.com for SmashWiki, etc.). Doesn't matter whether it's a .com or something else, right? That part can be whatever. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 00:25, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

Draco-chan thinks this idea seems quite fine. She hasn't been very active here for a while since her abilities have been exceeded by the scope of what needs done, but if she can help with this move and whatnot, she would be happy to do so. Otherwise, trust in Erik is go! Dracobolt 02:14, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

Okay guys! We're working on this :) goldensunwiki.net has been bought (I have a thing against .com) and we're working on getting it set-up. Could this account please get sysop access so that we can start the copying? I'm going to be sharing this account with pawitp - who is in charge of the technical side of things, and he says he'll run the copy over. :) So yeah, if we could get sysop, that'd be great. Aredmoon 05:32, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing you meant User:Aredmoon getting sysop status? That's what I just did now. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 05:47, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Awesome! He will get to work when he gets home, and we'll keep you guys up to date. Please don't make any critical edits in the next day or so, as we may be working. Aredmoon 05:59, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure, there won't be any big editing for a period of time. Of course various IPs and minor contributors would make their little edits because they wouldn't be aware of any of this, but I presume that doesn't amount to any issue. Right? Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 06:01, November 25, 2010 (UTC)