Talk:Golden Sun: Dark Dawn

Wow, you guys are fast
Literally seconds after I finished watching the live stream announcing Golden Sun Dark Dawn on the E3 website I came to move the page here only to find it had already been changed. I really have to hand it to you guys. This was my first wiki several years ago, man was I a nuisance... Looks interesting, though i'm not so much of a fan of the 3D graphics. Any thoughts on what information from the short new trailer can be included in this page? 16:36, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * We get another minute long trailer and we're once again waiting 6 months. I mean, sure we have the release date by now thats the least they could do after an entire year of silence. Like pretty much everything else Nintendo showed I have a bad feeling in my stomach that I hope turns into a good one in the next while... The graphics look somewhat worse than the initial showing, and I'm not feeling this Psynergy Vortex buisness. This is all IMO mind you. Anyways, at least the wait is over, sort of. Title is actually pretty good, btw. :P Caasi(talk) 20:05, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * But what about all the images and official artwork I've been uploading? That's where seemingly the true awesomeness lies. =) Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 20:11, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * As you probably know, it's really just the initial shock of seeing all this thats giving me negative impressions. I look at the stuff you uploaded (yes, it is quite lovely) and I am wishing I hadn't sold my DS at such an inconvenient time. It would be nice if the 3DS would come out not long after this gets released but if not its my poor judgement... Now who could I borrow one from? My heart skipped a beat when I saw Matthews artwork. Bravo, bravo, my God that is just amazing...=D Caasi(talk) 20:15, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do have to wonder about the implications of some of the things I've been seeing in the videos. The one that comes immediately to my mind is the locations. What can we glean from those? We know there is one scene that occurs in Vale, but only one generation has passed: there have to be other familiar locations. Besides that, this is the pre-release. They aren't going to show this game's equivalent of Mars Lighthouse. I'll be using this video for reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th_DDyyxKNg&feature=related Read it here. ThorHammer17 19:21, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Im really concerned with the Djinn...I mean, canonically, there are only 72. So unless we're using the same 72 Djinn, (which would suck no matter how you slice it), I don't know how they'll explain it. Never mind, they're recycling them. @_@Caasi(talk) 01:52, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

I'm becoming increasingly concerned...
As GS:DS's eventual release date becomes ever closer to being a reality (and then, who knows, maybe even the game itself! ;P) I'm becoming very worried about the integrity of the wiki immediately after the game's release. Basically, GS:DS will be emulated and downloaded by everyone who wants it within a week of its release, as the DS has a ludicrously large number of people who play on modchips (good lord, if this game has a wi-fi it's going to be chock full of hackers XD). All of these people will have access to the Japanese version, presumably, a long time before the US (and heaven forbid Australian!) release. In this time, everybody who knows even a shred of Japanese (and probably many of those who don't) will be flooding the internet with information, much of it will be subject to change once an official translation is done. Furthermore, data redundancy becomes an issue. Right now, many, many, pages have "until GS:DS comes out" somewhere in the page. Going through all of them to bring them up to date, and then correcting them if the information changes (nouns are what I am most concerned about), is not going to be an lean feat. I mean, sure the GS community seems to be a pretty good one, but when you take a look at the absolute wars that erupt over fantranslations (Tales of Phantasia anyone?), I just want to make sure that never happens here. Thoughts? Personally, I want to put all unconfirmed GS:DS info into separate pages which can be integrated back into the main wiki once the english version is out. Slax01 00:28, January 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, this wiki certainly hasn't had much activity, good OR vandal, in the last several months straight, which leads me to suspect that while the stuff you describe will be going on, it won't be going on as intensively as that of a more populated wiki on a more popular subject, since GS community isn't as wild and mainstream and there'll most likely be less people putting in the exclusive Japanese info they find in their hacking. Fixing data redundancy on various pages I don't predict will be a hair-pulling exercise in frustration and stress (I might even enjoy doing that, at least for a little while), and information on differences between English and Japanese versions would qualify as info to be put into articles anyway - I don't think separate subpages would be all that necessary. (It might end up being more of a hassle to maintain pages and keep the confirmed info on the main page and Japanese GSDS info on the respective subpage.)
 * While this wiki became a good, consistent resource on the GBA games, it took a long time for it to develop to that state, and until then it did not have much integrity at all, but it wasn't like that was a dire issue everyone editing the site at that time was worrying so as to get completed as fast as possible. I think it's completely unavoidable that there'll be a period of a lack of integrity for the wiki after the release dates of GSDS, but any Wiki with a new installment in its series coming out has that sort of period anyway, and it only matters that they become good resources on the new material in a reasonable amount of time. I've seen it happen like that with the Smash Bros. wiki when Brawl came out. :/ Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 01:47, January 26, 2010 (UTC)

It does seem a bit daunting... But it just means more work for us to do, and in truth we haven't much to do lately.:P I don't support emulating games that are on a current platform, and it's going to be tough for those of us who have to wait for the North American/Australian releases. I'm going to be a bit sad when the expected influx of new editors come with their leet factoids...:P But I'd much rather be worried about this than not have another game at all. Caasi 22:34, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Basically I'm only concerned about edit wars erupting over names. Imagine if this wiki had been written entirely using the name "Robin". Now try and replace Robin with "Isaac"... Then all you have to do is look at how... "Picky" (for lack of a better word) some sections of the community are with names ("Picard" anyone?) and you can start to see why I'm worried. Basically, I'm pretty much seeing a massive number of people using conflicting names, either out of ignorance or preference, which then degrades into an ongoing edit war. To prevent this is not really very difficult. To solve trundling through every page for data that needs changing, all you need to do is, say, make a template with something along the lines: "the following information pertains to GS:DS and therefore uses information that may not be entirely reliable or accurate. It may be subject to abrupt change when more reliable sources become available"- this template also adds the page to, say, a "articles containing pre-english-release GS:DS information" category, which then creates a quick and easy index of pages that need reviewing once GS:DS's english version comes out. Secondly, and more importantly, there needs to be a rule that says "use the X version of the game over all others" (my preference being X stands for official English translation), so that people can be treated as vandals if they knowingly change the wiki's material to a different translation. The best example of this would be redirects. Redirecting "piers" to "picard" rather than the other way around is very often a source of intense flame wars on many a wiki where more than one translation is in common use. As for the brawl analog, the biggest difference is that Brawl has pre-established english names and the wii doesn't have the rampant emulation found on the DS. Heaven forbid if an english patch comes out before the actual english version does (check the "Tales of Phantasia" talk page on wikipedia for an extreme example of japanese-name-loyalty). Slax01 08:45, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps. Also, one could make templates comprised of strictly the name of one of the heroes and place that template everywhere where the hero's current Japanese name would otherwise be mentioned, and if there's a change in name for the English release, all one has to do is change the name on the template and the name will be changed on all the pages themselves. On Wikipedia, a similar tactic was used before the full release of the Pokemon 4th generation, to keep the current number of known Pokemon consistent among all the list pages and such. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 18:34, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

OK, we need to protect this page for a while.
While we do have alot of great, hard working annonomous users doing stuff I am already seeing speculation. Younger Issac? I thought I saw Ramses personaly, but until we get some concrete details we need to keep speculation out. So either protect this now or put a big thing at the top to say Please no specualtion. Sorry about the spelling i'm to excited to type rite.Zabbeth 17:50, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll be protecting this from anons at some point in the near future, but at the moment all the anons seem eager to not outright vandalize and merely add stuff they're observing from the trailer, and I don't see a huge issue with speculation quite yet, so for now I'm letting them "have their fun". Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 18:18, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Images
I have uploaded some images. I edited the logo into the page but I'll leave the rest of the images for others. Grubbles

Nice job, keep up the great work.Zabbeth 19:00, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I'm out. I uploaded ten screenshots of summons and landscapes. I'll come back if I get anything else. Grubbles

the image of the girl with the trident riding the dolphin or porpoise is safe to say i think nereid in golden sun the lost age she is on a turtle so maybe they changed her a little-user:brandonallison

I think the pic with the unknown bird-like summon it's actually a darkest version of Procne (Kinda like what they did with Megaera)ItzBlitz 03:25, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * By god, you're right! It's got the correct head structure for it. I'll update with this, thanks! Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 03:30, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

WOOT
I am really happy right now. I don't even care how irrelevant this is! I just started playing through the original 2 and now this is announced. Damn, I am going to go play for several hours now because this news has just made my entire year and probably next year too! 24.78.136.207 22:10, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Happy for you. ^_^ But you're right in that it is irrelevant, and the sort of things wiki talk pages generally disallow; talk pages are more about discussing how to improve the article than talking about the subject of the article itself. You'd want to go to this forum topic about GSDS to express in full how happy you are, and that goes for all of us too. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 18:33, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Isaac
I guess it really is him. My computer is running all screwy right now so some one else can add it in.Zabbeth 18:17, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You don't think that maybe the article writer just ASSUMED it was Isaac? Anyway, you can't spell ignorant without IGN. Kyarorain 18:20, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Now that's a charming way of putting it. XD And I agree too, that's an example of critical assumption. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 18:28, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

i do not think that is isacc it is probaly isacc descadent or child i guess many isacc fans will finally find out who isacc chose as his wife-brandonallison
 * Correct, but until that's revealed we can't put any of our own guesses into the contents of the actual articles. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 18:57, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Speculations
i say we set up a new page for speculations on who the new characters are and who they are descended from. As new info gets posted, we can put it there and have the talk page on that page be for arguing over the subject of Mudshipping and Valeshipping. You know, give the advocates one last chance to argue it out before camelot sets up canon for it. --Irish Reaper 17:59, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, we're pretty much hoping that all speculation will be limited to forum topics such as this. Now that the third Golden Sun game IS reality, the wiki will pretty much have to put its foot down and disallow speculation in anywhere that is not the forums... Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 18:23, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay. That makes perfect sense. Maybe there should be a group of us members that post the information on the new game on the site and keep the speculation to a minimum. --Irish Reaper 18:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I'll be one of those members if you want. I've finished my exams so I'll be pretty active. Asakura Yoh 19:25, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

i just noticed this but the music of the video of golden sun ds sounds like a song from the original the song is from the tolbi-bound ship and it is marked 89 in the battle arenas tracks should we add this song to wat we know about the game(it sounds very similar) Brandonallison 20:33, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

That's already been put on the Karagol Sea page. Phimi 21:05, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And frankly, we don't even know if that's going to be in the actual DS game itself...Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 22:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Uh, hey I heard a rumor that none of they characters from the preivous games will be in the new one. If you have heard this rumor, tell me where people who talk about this game(on facebook) say all sorts of weird thing and I never know if there true. So if you've heard anything or read anything, maybe tell me, please. I think that would be a let down with none of the prievous characters in Golden sun ds.

That is more just speculation at this time we do not know who will be coming back we might see a isaac as a dad all of the informatio we have on the Golden Sun page is all the information we have

and since we have so little information alot of the games new storyline is up to question Brandonallison 01:47, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Anyone have any idea of who this Crown guys is? I've seen his name in a screenshot alongside the the original three. Actually its the screenshot with the suppossed new Megaera. Still any thoughts at all.


 * This kind of speculation so late after E3 doesn't belong on this page, move it to the forums please. Caasi (talk) 18:13, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

So I got my Nintendo Power today...
... and boy are my arms tired. Wait, that's not right.

Anyways, it's got almost no new info available on the game. But it did officially state that the new main player character is in fact Isaac's son (no word on the mother), I say officially because Nintendo Power is Nintendo. Whether or not his son is the one seen in the poster was not revealed. Anyways I just thought I would let the community know.Zabbeth 18:04, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It is Nintendo and not just a group of American Nintendo enthusiasts that try really hard to glean information out of Nintendo itself; you are certain of this much, right? (Well actually, checking Wikipedia, they do say that NP's pretty much filled with direct-from-the-source insider info, so I suppose there's no risk in mentioning that tidbit in these pages.) Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 18:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Guys, I have to question that information actually. The only sources that can be found online which write down everything from the Nintendo Power article do NOT say anything about the main character being Isaac's son. Some proof, such as a page citation or even better a non-grainy photograph of the information in the magazine, would be rather appropriate at this point. I also have a witness who goes by "Redliw_Ledah" who read the magazine and said that the information was not there, so it is definitely in question at this point and should not be in this wiki.

- Silva, from Golden Sunrise
 * This would be the Nintendo Power article in question (when it appeared 8 months ago and the posts above this were made), and it does make the pretty unsupported-sounding claim that the GSDS hero is Isaac's son. Now, what doesn't belong in this wiki is for the wiki itself to say that he is Isaac's son, that much is true; what does belong, however, is for it to merely report that Nintendo Power said that, without the wiki itself deciding whether it is right or wrong without other reliable sources to go on. The way it's worded in this article - "However, Nintendo Power magazine has claimed that he is the son of the previous games' hero, Isaac" - does not deceive the reader into believing he's Isaac's son for certain at the risk of being possibly wrong. Though yeah, I do gotta admit, that image I just linked to should have been placed as a reference link after that sentence long ago... Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 01:16, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

I got the nintendo power for November, (The month this lady at GameStop said Golden Sun ds is coming out) had nothing about the new game. I now sad, It's like on a contest show, where they give no hints on who will win...only it's a video game, that everybody waiting for. Oh and when I was at GameStop I resevered a copy...Booyah!

DS?
Does it seem at all likely that DS might be made to stand for something related to the game (it wouldn't be unprecedented)? Tzion 02:29, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

I think it's very likely the DS may stand for something. Kind of like Caslevania: Dawn of Sorrow. At the same time though it may mearly be a place holder, as "DS" can be thrown into practicaly any title to show that the game will come out for that system. Personaly though I think it is just a place holder until they are ready to announce the actual name. I honestly think Camelot would go for a different title and not settle for the "DS" naming scheme like other companies.Zabbeth 13:17, September 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Not that it wouldn't be cool if there was something plot-relevant using the DS acronym that could be referred to in the title... Anything Camelot could do with the game could be sensational in this appreciator's opinion. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 16:57, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Definately hope it's just a placeholder... I don't even want it to be an acronym...If they do decide to keep it like that, itll confirm my suspicions about it being aimed at Nintendo's casual crowd. Although I dont think they'd make this game were it not for us. =O --Caasi 18:56, September 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it's rather assumptive to say that how they handle the title determines the likelihood of what level of "hardcoreness" the game would have. But for me, since it's Golden Sun, a DS acronym would be just as awesome as a title that doesn't use a DS acronym. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 20:13, September 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's really only the blatant "DS" that would annoy me... Either way, you're right, it will still be awesome! --Caasi 20:18, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

DS ports?
Since the series won't be familiar to everyone who might want to try Golden Sun DS, do you think they'll re-release the older two on a DS card, or maybe the VC? Cos I look everywhere for used copies of the first one at stores but I can't get even that... I think it's a good idea, especially if Nintendo really wants to take in a good profit on this next installment. Obviously, I'm content with ROMs and just being able to have a third game but... --Caasi=Isaac 15:58, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

Advisory template category whut
So uh... why is this in Category:Advisory Templates? o_O is it accidentally transcluded or what? Ali is so confused right now... AlishaShatogi 22:05, November 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, it was an accident thanks to me when I attempted making the vandalism template... I accidentally transcluded myself as well LOL. If anyone knows how to fix this, please help. xP--Caasi=Isaac 23:00, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

ds ports solved
if you dont mind me saying why dont those who have a ds but not the first two gs get a emulator (vba is a good one) and the golden sun roms


 * I guess what I meant was ports for the general audience, because most people don't fiddle around with emulation software. =P I'm not speaking for myself, pretty much, since I have both ROMS and the originals. Caasi 18:41, December 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * sorry bout that but i added that for those who havent got time to buy the game or havent hered of emulators--Ajax752 20:35, December 26, 2009 (UTC)

What would it be like on the Wii?
What would you think Golden Sun would be like on the Nintendo Wii?

I would think it would be better then the DS version for big screen(at my place) and wireless convenience as opposed to the DS(which I lost the other day). Being able to Vs. a lot more people too. Graphics can be far better then DS as a defensive point. --Enderoftime2 23:12, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know... Yeah, you can't match the graphics and the bigger screen of the Wii and the DS, but the Wii would be another thing. Both the two GS games were for an handheld console and, if I recall correctly, the Takahashi brothers said "they wanted a GS game to be more user-friendly" or something like that. That's my opinion, anyway :). --berta 20:42, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

E3's soon
So, I hear nintendo's presentation is in about 16 hours time, anyone actually expecting to hear GS:DS info? I won't be watching it live (timezones), so I'm hoping I log onto here tomorrow morning and see a release date. XD Slax01 00:01, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it's safe to expect this, considering that tomorrow it will have been 54 weeks since the last time GSDS information was unveiled, which was when the game itself was first unveiled in E3 2009. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 02:41, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, I note camelot's main site has not been updated. also, is it worth putting in a link to the 2010 promo vid? Also; Gah these server shennagins are annyoying. Slax01 22:31, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * In 2009, it wasn't updated for a while after the E3 announcement of Golden Sun "DS", so I expect it to be similar here. And I already put in a link to the version uploaded onto YouTube, which seems like a better idea on the whole because the current E3 page with the original video and the press release material will likely be taken down later. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 23:28, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Those demo links do the job nicely (for now at least, the running commentary isn't ideal), also I made a forum topic on the confirmed stuff for discussion (also for discussion are speculatively-confirmed things, like Boreas, Azul, etc I guess), all I've put in there for now is stuff I've seen in vid #2, as a starting point, but I figured an easy-to access reference list would be good. Slax01 08:04, June 16, 2010 (UTC) Sure, spam, I know, but I'm annyoed. That guy is mispronouncing it. It isn't "sinergy" its "sigh-nergy", psy is for psychic, which isnt sick-ick, now is it? >:( Slax01 08:15, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just to state for the record, I used to pronounce Psynergy like him for years until shortly before GSDS was first announced in E3 2009, if I recall correctly. Nowadays I pronounce it like "Psychic". ^_^ Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 08:25, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * (okok, last spammy comment XD) Honestly, I thought it could just be an American thing, I mean when I watched the clip I also noticed that he pronounced "Adept" differently to the way I do (which may or may not be the way Australians as a whole pronounce it) ie: A-dept, as opposed to Ad-ept, but that is just different, and certainly not wrong. Slax01 08:35, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

New video
A new gameplay video has emerged on Youtube and it shows Karis's Psynergy, including a new Jupiter healing Psynergy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6MC6JCroak Kyarorain 14:13, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Um, sorry, but the link doesn't work. I can tell that the way the link to the YouTube URL is wrong is because it says "%2F" where it should say "/", and where even doing that still leaves the URL three characters too long. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 16:43, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

New Trailer
There's a new trailer out and it shows the fourth playable character http://gamekyo.com/videofr17368_golden-sun-ds-le-nouveau-trailer.html Are You Serious 23:12, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Already covered on the mainpage, I do believe. Try checking there first when you suspect you have new content. Caasi 23:21, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I truly have very little knowledge of have to edit this or any wiki, but i wanted to bring to you attention a new video showcasing some of the abilities used in the new game. The trailer was released September 15. The video is in Japanese, which i do not know. Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsVLBxO6b-4. Thank you.

Pissed (maybe)
If Isaac and Garet are the only 2 characters (that maybe playable) from the first 2 games im gunna be one pissed off asshole! Worldwarz2

Werewolf?
one of the new sillouetts looks like it has tufted ears and claws. maybe one of the party got bitten or maha had a kid with one of them. still, intresting nay?

ESRB Rating
I changed the ESRB rating to RP (Rating Pending), because, as far as I can tell, ESRB hasn't rated it yet. A search on the ESRB website for the game brought up nothing (of relevance). If anyone has taken offense, let's discuss it here instead of getting into an edit war. Tanooki1432 23:33, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Articles in second or third person?
Hello, I know I'm just the new kid here, but I have a question. I've notice that some pages refer to the player as "the player," and some as "you," and I was wondering which was acceptable on this Wiki. My opinion is that the articles should be in third person because it's more formal, but I'm not sure... Golden Sea 03:06, October 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * "The player" would be the best because that's how Wikipedia does it. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 03:21, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

FEILD TRIP!!!!
i highly recomend a visit to the japanease offical website Worldwarz2
 * Thanks for the heads up, but I don't really see much information in there that can even be made out with google translate, let alone anything cool and new. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 01:04, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

Whats the new info?74.244.14.135 01:27, November 10, 2010 (UTC)#
 * That's what I'm saying: I don't know if there is any new info in it. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 01:47, November 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * well i couldn't make anything out everything was in a different language but i was hoping you guys would there apeared to be ALOT of info to get from that website we need someone who can reed that stuff man i mean why not it's already out in japan so there must be some info we dont have on there!

UPDATE: i just remeberdered that i saw a video on the website that featured the player sailing a ship and if i found that by accident then theres bound to be stuff there that someone who knows what there doing can get Worldwarz2,INCERT COMMENT HERE!


 * Since the game has been released the Japanese website likely has no new info that can't be found by thousands of people who have purchased the game. At least one editor on GSU has it. Looking elsewhere on the net you might find more info, but requesting it here is not going to work very well.


 * Also may I suggest signing into your Wikia account when you contribute? Caasi 21:27, November 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * im confused? i mean arn't we suppost to put down every last peice of info on here isn't that the point of having this wikia in the first place? i mean if thats the case then whats the point of adding new chacater pages when people would have found them on there own? Worldwarz2 11:49 November 12, 2010

The game has been released in Japan. The Japanese website is intended for the Japanese audience. Why would the Japanese fans spoil the game for themselves by going on a website, and on the flip side why would the developers add more information after release? The website is probably not going to have much more info to glean that can't be found in the game. Consequentially do you know any Japanese people? People that speak Japanese fluently? Maybe, but probably not. Do you see any on this wiki? I have not. Unless someone on GSU can accurately translate a substantial amount of information from the Japanese version, we are waiting until English release on November the 29th to add information from the game pertaining to story and characters. Caasi 20:39, November 12, 2010 (UTC)