Talk:Main Page

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Rethinking User Groups
well.. since we have had spam problems lately, I've been doing a multitude of quick fixes which are creating a bit of a mess. I'm proposing we rework our user structure (which is something that basically I and Erik do) This will give us a cleaner documentation of who has what privileges, and We can create custom groups such as "Adepts" for normal trusted users instead of "wikian" for example. (for the moment, I'm restricting page creation to admins only (sorry Hungry paperweight) then we can work this all out) ~ dkpat 11:32, 11 July 2011 (CDT)


 * No need to apologize to me. Aside from the occasional redirect, I don't think I'll need to make any new pages until I'm done with my current re-catigorization project, by which point this problem will probably have run its course. At any rate, I don't know much about user structure, so I trust those that do (you, Erik, and whoever else might be able to help) will come up with a workable solution. (In other words, I probably won't be of much help on this one ^_^;) The World&#39;s Hungriest Paperweight 11:43, 11 July 2011 (CDT)

Messed up Categories
We do have a bit of a problem at the root level of our categories. We have two different sets of categories. Category:Browse and Category:General and there is practically no link between them. Both are intended to be top level category... and both are.. but only one needs to be. I saw we stick with General and merge content in Browse over to it. (I can do it, just making sure everyone agrees)~ dkpat 10:33, 17 July 2011 (CDT)


 * Well, it looks like the General category has to do with the games themselves whereas the Browse category if for wiki stuff, so I don't know if just plain merging them is the best idea. Perhaps if we first moved all the content in the General category to Category:Golden Sun Series, then merged the two root categories together, making the Golden Sun series category a sub-cat of the root category. Sound good? The World&#39;s Hungriest Paperweight 13:03, 17 July 2011 (CDT)


 * Personally, I would rather do it the other way around. The user is much more concerned with content than policies. We have the Category:Golden Sun Universe that could easily be made to hold the wiki related stuff, it already does hold most of it. ~ dkpat 13:06, 17 July 2011 (CDT)
 * Again that is just my opinion, Either way, We do need to get rid of the two separate categories... it makes it hard to find pages for me sometimes ~ dkpat 13:18, 17 July 2011 (CDT)


 * (Edit conflict) That works too, and makes more sense. I just noticed the "series cat" first and thought it would make a better home for game-related info than the vague "General cat". For that matter, there's nothing stopping us from doing both, but if we have to choose I'd go with your plan ;) The World&#39;s Hungriest Paperweight 13:20, 17 July 2011 (CDT)


 * That's an odd category really... because under it was have items and such, but above it we have characters... I really would like some consistency there. I think, That The series category could be made to hold Golden Sun Media (games, cameos, etc.) and just move the information about the world to the general (items, for example) It just makes sense to me for thins that are deeply rooted in the world of golden sun to be on the same level as the real world games themselves. ~ dkpat 13:25, 17 July 2011 (CDT)


 * I guess that would work too, but the name is somewhat misleading. It suggests that it should be the top-level category for anything in the video games. Perhaps if we were to rename it something like Category:Golden Sun media? The World&#39;s Hungriest Paperweight 13:45, 17 July 2011 (CDT)


 * (This is a change that I will wait to make for sure) The readers of the wiki are just as interested (if not more interested) in the materials from the games as the games themselves. This makes them at least equally important, thus I think how I do. And I don't mind renaming it as such, but I understood the other one fine too. I can see where you might get confusion though. (essentially, I'm trying to get our top level to reflect the links on main page or vice-versa.) ~ dkpat 13:50, 17 July 2011 (CDT)


 * Trying to make sense of all the stuff being said here... I would have thought there to be no need for any sort of General category at all, and just make all things to do with the games and what's inside them be in Category:Golden Sun Series, while all things to do with the wiki and its policies be in Category:Golden Sun Universe. That seems to be perfectly reasonable for the common reader to be able to discern the site from the site's Golden Sun subject matter in category terms. It's not like there's any possible page that doesn't fall under either Category:Golden Sun Series or Category:Golden Sun Universe, right? As for the root issue, if there's some sort of big policy that prevents these two categories from existing as the two separate roots for whatever reason (two roots is what I'd probably advocate), then it seems simple to just make the GSU category the root that the GSS category is contained in. I don't think that would even throw off any of the readerbase in any way because all the wiki's articles about the Golden Sun series are still in a big set of categories belonging to the GSS master category anyway. Erik the Appreciator 14:19, 17 July 2011 (CDT)


 * To dkpat: When I mentioned that it sounds like the Series cat should be the top-level category, I wasn't suggesting that we put all game-content articles under that cat. I was just explaining why I believe the name to be misleading. I agree with you about most visitors would be more interested in going straight to things like Psynegy, Items, Monsters, and other stuff rather than wading through things like Camelot and Gameplay, which is why I suggested renaming the category.


 * To Erik: I don't know if there's any particular policy regarding root categories, but I'll admit that it's "cleaner" to have a single root category rather than two roots that go off in different directions. However, making either the Series cat or the Universe cat a sub-category of the other comes with it's own problems. In the case of having GSS under GSU, the information on the games would get lost in the sea of technical data. Flipping things around, putting GSU under GSS makes it harder to get to the stuff that keeps the wiki running. The average gamer probably wouldn't care much about that, though, so making GSS the root category might be the lesser of two evils.


 * To everyone: I think I have a new idea: We keep the General category as the root category, but move the majority of its contents to the Golden Sun Series category (and move the Series category's current contents to a new category, like the "Golden Sun media" idea I suggested). The end result will be that the General category will contain only two items, the Golden Sun Series cat and the Golden Sun Universe cat (and maybe the Main Page). The other two categories will then be able to act as two separate root categories while still being connected (think of them as "sub-roots"), which I believe was the original issue. The World&#39;s Hungriest Paperweight 14:44, 17 July 2011 (CDT)

Top Level Debate
I didn't intend to make it seem like I didn't agree with you, nor that you were suggesting we put it all under series, It more of a thought that came afterwards to serve as more justification that is easier to understand. I wanted to say it before I forgot about it so I simply put it in my next post. Also, I'm OK with the current plan as a whole, but I'm not sure if "Golden Sun Series" is a quite fitting name. It doesn't seem to properly embody all that we would put in it. Maybe it's just me though. Maybe name it like.. umm... umm... >_> Gameplay Elements.... no.. that conflicts with the game play category that is mechanics like... um... ~ dkpat 14:53, 17 July 2011 (CDT)

I've looked around at other NIWA wikis. and EAch seems to have a different way...
 * Metroid Wiki Does it how I proposed earlier, With Wiki Aspects in a category with Lore, Items, Games, Characters etc.
 * SmashWiki has a Category called Major, under which 4 categories that all relate to the franchise, this Major category is a member of the SmashWiki category.
 * Fire Emblem Wiki has a Top level which has a Wiki, Fire Emblem Universe, Images, and Real world categories underneath it.
 * ZeldaWiki does it very oddly, and has ZeldaWiki as their top level, and about 4 levels deep is their zelda category.
 * WiKirby has a Main category with the major components such as Items, Stages, Games and WiKirby category. The Main is also a member of Wikirby.

I'm sure there are many more with different ways too... just some ideas abound here! lol... ~ dkpat 15:08, 17 July 2011 (CDT)


 * What if we were to call the Golden Sun Series category just Golden Sun? anyone think that would work? I've sene some wikis do that. ~ dkpat 15:35, 17 July 2011 (CDT)


 * (Edit Conflict) The SmashWiki is actually a bit a lot more confusing than that: Major is under SmashWiki, SmashWiki is under Websites, Websites is under SSB Universe, and SSB Universe is under both Major and SmashWiki. Anyways, I guess this means there's no "right" way to do this, so we just need to find a way that works for us. And I'll agree that "Golden Sun Series" isn't the most accurate name. I have no problem using it, but if you want to come up with a better name I'll see if I can help. How does "Game content" or "Series content" sound? P.S. I think "Golden Sun" is a bit too vague. And that's ignoring the fact that the first game is just called "Golden Sun"... The World&#39;s Hungriest Paperweight 15:38, 17 July 2011 (CDT)
 * I think I like Series Content more than Game content. It seems to apply better when you consider the 4Koma comic and such. (unless we took a broader approach with real world content separated out like a lot of other do... which might work better, I'm not sure) ~ dkpat 15:50, 17 July 2011 (CDT)

Ok, so to summarize, We have two current options (I think) (Just to make it easier, I hope) ~ dkpat 20:57, 17 July 2011 (CDT)


 * I can't imagine "Real World content" would be very big. It's an idea to keep in mind if, say, a card game or anime is released, but even in those cases it would probably be easier to create sub-sub-roots within the "Series content" category, such as "Video Game content", "Anime content", and "Card Game content". So I'm going to vote for the first plan. P.S. I think the "content" in the cat titles looks better uncapitalized. But that's more my personal style than something worth debating, so whatever works works ;) The World&#39;s Hungriest Paperweight 10:20, 18 July 2011 (CDT)
 * Then Let's do it. :D ~ dkpat 10:34, 18 July 2011 (CDT)

Untitled
I don't know if its just me or the country I'm from but every day from 12pm-7pm, its the only time I have access here. Anything before and after that time, I have absolutely no access. Is anyone else having the same problem or is it just me? This has happened since Saturday. Chinkycandie 19:49, 6 December 2011 (CST)
 * I was informed by our host (User:Aredmoon) that there would be a momentary outage because of a switch of DNS records involving his account, But it shouldn't be anything long term like that. I've pointed him to look at this, perhaps he will have more feedback. ~ dkpat 22:50, 6 December 2011 (CST)
 * That might explain it. I didn't even know about it. Thanks for letting me know. Chinkycandie 23:10, 6 December 2011 (CST)

I really wish I had a full explanation, but I think this might suffice: technology hates people.(Dillion got it right, it's all DNS screw-ups) --Aredmoon 10:26, 8 December 2011 (CST)
 * LOL I still can only access during the mentioned times :( Chinkycandie 22:29, 8 December 2011 (CST)
 * By chance has it fixed itself? --Aredmoon 16:29, 15 December 2011 (CST)
 * No but the times I can log in have changed. Now I can log in from 2-10pm. Chinkycandie 21:19, 15 December 2011 (CST)
 * Chinky, are you talking about logging in specifically, or being able to view the wiki? I have had no problems viewing the wiki now. (and it is possible that this is the case, different areas have different routes they have to go through to get to the website) ~ dkpat 10:44, 16 December 2011 (CST)

^ Viewing the wiki. Sometimes (for me once a month), have to log in to view the wiki :P Chinkycandie 18:30, 16 December 2011 (CST)
 * OK then, lol, I just wanted to be sure since I haven't been having the problem now.(and the only time frame in I haven't checked it between is 4 AM - 10 AM EST) ~ dkpat 23:40, 16 December 2011 (CST)
 * Hopefully it can get better soon (for me anyway). Chinkycandie 02:39, 17 December 2011 (CST)
 * Yay its back to normal :D Finally! After 2 weeks. Chinkycandie 17:38, 17 December 2011 (CST)

New Skin or Update
Hello Everyone! So... MediaWiki Version 1.18 has been out for a while, and It's fairly safe to say we could be set to upgrade, minus one thing. The Current Skin completely fails with it. (http://dkpat.net/skinwiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=goldensunwiki) The MediaWiki Team overhauled the Skin system a lot, causing this problem. Don't worry though, It's isn't just GSU, all the wiki Skin's I designed don't work on 1.18 (That's Nookipedia, N-Wiki, WikiBound, and it was Fire Emblem Wiki) But, In the case of Fire Emblem Wiki, I was easily able to update the skin to work with 1.18, and they are now in fact running 1.18 on their wiki, and the updated skin.

So. This leaves us to either update the current skin when we look to upgrade to 1.18, or I could go about making a New Skin. Either way is fine with me. What is everyone's opinions? ~ dkpat 14:25, 6 January 2012 (CST)
 * Well, while a straightforward update is the easy way out, various little issues with the actual design of the site's skin itself might make a new skin with new visuals be the more interesting option. The way the Fire Emblem wiki looks right now is slick, and I don't remember it looking like that the last time I checked it.


 * It's always been a little questionable how the wiki title is redundantly displayed twice up on top, with the square logo on the left and the large gold title right of that. The color scheme of the site is a little overly brown and is somewhat dark for all the article text to be imposed upon. The borders around the main page content, side bars, and user name area at the top right of the page seem a little too thick. And now that it's been over a year since Dark Dawn and all of its "new" impact has passed by, it's probably a good idea for the skin to feature a new arrangement of art that conveys both the classic GBA and modern DS aspects of the series. Erik the Appreciator 18:44, 6 January 2012 (CST)
 * I designed the skin for Fire Emblem Wiki as my latest skin, (I was really excited about it too and love the way it looks) soo... Thanks for the Compliment! :D
 * I'll say that Golden Sun Wiki was my very first wiki skin that I designed, and I built it off of another template that I found and modified (for those who may not remember) Here we are a little more than a year later and I now have a ton of Wiki Skins under my belt, so I'm much more versed with how to do it. I had always agreed the border was too thick, but the way this skin does the border it would be ridiculous to try and modify. (it uses crazy image techniques) Also at this point, the vast majority of browsers (even IE9!) support CSS3 rounded borders, so that would be a much much simpler to implement. I'm looking for tips that anyone may have for suggestions if we doi go with a new skin ~ dkpat 18:54, 6 January 2012 (CST)
 * The Golden Sun wiki could honestly suffice with the FE wiki's centered structure and layout, and just have different colors and not have a transparent main body. The way the FE wiki has a combination of FE promotional images that blend together seamlessly looks like a good concept for Golden Sun to copy, and a fake "draft" I uploaded, which is in the 2000-pixel style we're probably not going to use, shows the three main Golden Sun game promo images I think our own version should incorporate. I threw in a part of the Lookout Cabin view of Mt. Aleph because that could be another "Golden Sunnish" element in our version. Those are my basic ideas, and you could arrange those anyway you want... Erik the Appreciator 21:38, 6 January 2012 (CST)
 * I'm really hoping to get other user's input as well (no offense intended, just want everyone to have the chance to voice their opinion about it) I am currently in the process of making another Skin that is similar to Fire Emblem Wiki at this URL : http://dkpat.net/skinwiki It is a lot like FEW, just some minor changes, So I can easily make a skin similar to either one. But For right now, I'm going to let this sit and wait for some other input. ~ dkpat 22:00, 6 January 2012 (CST)

I'm not too fussed what the skin looks like. I'll probably get used to it in a matter of days and more or less not notice it has changed. If its a major change then I'll notice. But yeah, the double title is a bit pointless. Chinkycandie 00:26, 7 January 2012 (CST)
 * I'm going to look into using Vector as a base for this skin, There is just certain features of Vector that would be great to have. I've got a base knowledge of how to make vector, but not a highly extensive knowledge. Anyways, I'll look into it more and see what I come up with. ~ dkpat 11:52, 7 January 2012 (CST)


 * It looks like we all agree that the double-title is pointless and needs to go. As for Erik's "draft", it's not bad, but looks a bit too crowded. Maybe it's just that the bright colors of the sunset clash with the darker backgrounds behind the characters. I think we should focus on just one or the other. For example, we could cut out the view from Lookout Cabin and just have a collage of the protagonists. Or we could do the opposite and focus on Mt. Aleph and the Golden Sun, which would be more minimalistic than the Fire Emblem Wiki (which is not necessarily a bad thing). I think I would prefer the latter, since it does a better job of symbolizing the series as a whole and wouldn't need to be updated when GS4 is announced ;p
 * Of course, all that is just assuming that we go with Erik's idea. If anyone has any other ideas, feel free to throw them on the table! The World&#39;s Hungriest Paperweight 15:30, 9 January 2012 (CST)


 * So, it definitely seems it is agreed to just go with a new skin. but do we have suggestions for color schemes? I like the 'golden sun' theme idea, just because I like it. lol and the double title has always been pointless to me, I tried to get it removed originally but someone didn't think it should happen. ~ dkpat 12:07, 15 January 2012 (CST)
 * Hmm, this might be a case where you should be the first to put up a draft showcasing your own idea for the color scheme, and then we talk about it. Erik the Appreciator 16:04, 15 January 2012 (CST)
 * I'm thinking we build off of this image (and this is the highest quality I've been able to find of it) Though I think it would be really neat if we could incorporate either the four traditional elements (venus, mars, mercury, jupiter) or sol and luna somehow. ~ dkpat 23:44, 15 January 2012 (CST)

Have that photo with the four djinn from the DD cover photoshopped onto it or something like that. Chinkycandie 23:47, 15 January 2012 (CST)
 * I can look into that. It would turn out to be similar to Golden Sun Realm. ~ dkpat 09:52, 21 January 2012 (CST)

New Skin
(new subsection to make replies easier) Here is a draft header image.Image No where near complete, just the basic idea of where I'm going so that we are all on the same page. feedback? ~ dkpat 12:22, 2 February 2012 (CST)


 * Looks pretty good to me. A few suggestions for future revisions, though:
 * This header is taller than what we currently have. I'd suggest trimming it down a bit. Either that, or everything else on the site will have to be pushed down to make room.
 * Maybe it's just me, but I don't think having the GSU title above Mt. Aleph and the Golden Sun itself is such a good idea. Maybe putting it off to the right would look better? The World&#39;s Hungriest Paperweight 13:07, 2 February 2012 (CST)
 * That's really incredible-looking. Since there's a question about whether the title should be above the mountain or off to the side, though, I suggest you make two versions of your next draft to explore each possibility.
 * BTW, Hungry: I'm not sure the larger header would have to mean the whole site would be moved down to "make room". The idea of the very large header seems to work well with the Metroid Wiki draft Dkpat's currently got up at his site ... Erik the Appreciator 20:12, 2 February 2012 (CST)
 * Well, I never claimed to be an expert on the subject. I'm just trying to anticipate potential problems. Whether or not they actually are problems depends on their execution. However, I do think I see a few flaws in your argument. One: The Metroid Wiki (or at least the one shown in the draft) has more room for their header than we do, which is what I'm saying we might have to fix. Two: The Metroid Wiki is semi-transparent, so the bottom of the header can still be seen even though it overlaps with the main text box. The World&#39;s Hungriest Paperweight 22:08, 2 February 2012 (CST)
 * Here is a version with it placed to the side. Header2 the intent of this image is not to be left aligned, so the edge is not the edge. It is an image in the style of FEW and M-Wiki where the website has a centered approach. The placement of the logo on this version fits within 1024 pixels, thus supporting 1024x768 resolution. I updated the original image to fix the bottom edges of it cutting off. Also, the height of this image is not necessarily the final height, I prefer to leave myself room to play with, starting big and going small if needed.~ dkpat 14:06, 3 February 2012 (CST)
 * Hmm, well, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that a centered title would partially cover up the little glowing sun above the mountain, since you can still make out that there is a sun shining behind the title to begin with. And when I think about it, the series has more of an emphasis on Mt. Aleph than any actual sun (the Golden Sun was a one-time big light explosion above Mt. Aleph that infused the world with life energy, and wasn't even anything like the ball-of-burning-plasma an actual sun is). I would use that as my reasoning to use the centered version where the title is above the all-important Mt. Aleph. Erik the Appreciator 15:04, 3 February 2012 (CST)
 * My concern isn't that the title is covering the Golden Sun specifically. It's that I think it looks weird to have the title overlapping either of the only two notable background objects. After all, we have all this empty space to either side of Mt. Aleph. Why not put it to good use by putting the title there? Of course, there's always the possibility that I'm the only one that feels this way, but I'm entitled to my opinion ;p
 * I will agree with you on one thing, Erik: The previous version looks better than this one. I think the main problem is that the title isn't centered vertically. Try bringing it down a bit, so that "Universe" is next to Mt. Aleph and "Golden Sun" is next to... well, the Golden Sun! (It's just a coincidence, don't read too much into it.)
 * P.S. I originally imagined the title being on the other side of Mt. Aleph, but either side will do. I just wanted to clarify my original suggestion. Best to get others' opinions before settling on one side or the other. The World&#39;s Hungriest Paperweight 19:29, 3 February 2012 (CST)

Next update to the skin with the direction I am going. Colors are a little bit up in the air. But this is exactly where I was going. Layout ~ dkpat 18:07, 5 February 2012 (CST)
 * Hmmm... Well, if we change to transparent text boxes, then I think I'd be okay with this. I don't know if having Mt. Aleph behind the box is the best idea, but that's probably just my paranoia talking. ^_^; The World&#39;s Hungriest Paperweight 18:24, 5 February 2012 (CST)
 * I really don't exactly want Mt. Aleph behind the content either but I don't know If I can have it not be behind. I cannot have a website with a header height of 450 px. It is far too much "wasted" space. and I have issues with making an image actually work like this (I've NEVER been able to get transparency like this right (referring to the fade out of Aleph image)) ~ dkpat 18:30, 5 February 2012 (CST)
 * The size issue does throw a wrench into many possible ideas. I'll therefore say HP's idea of showing the two objects to the side of the title is more likely to work. (And one can throw in some other image to fill up the other side of empty space, like Djinn, but that's up to Dkpat to decide.) But even so, the image is large enough that you can't really have both objects appropriately display in the top part for everyone to see - the mountain would be behind the transparent part if we're trying to get the sun to show too. If we're forced to cut one object out of mainstream sight for the other, what would be the better object to permanently display at top throughout the site: Mt. Aleph or the sun above it? I'd personally go for the mountain because it has more detail and for the other reasons I laid out just above. Erik the Appreciator 13:41, 6 February 2012 (CST)
 * Thinking from my post above, I predict the main illustrations of the four basic elemental Djinn designs could be useful in filling up empty space and providing "mascots". So, I'll summarize my current suggestions like this: whether we choose to keep the image the way it is and have the sun be at the top, or move the entire image up so that the mountain is visible at the top, there are two ways we can arrange the title and other objects across the top header image. One is to keep the title centered the way it is in Dkpat's most recent draft, and put two main Djinn illustrations on each side of the filled-up center. (The fact the illustrations depict two of the Djinn facing left - Jupiter and Mars - and two of the Djinn facing right - Venus and Mercury - could help us.) The other is to move the title off to the side so that the [sun/mountain] can be shown without anything covering it, and occupy the other side with the four Djinn clumped together. Erik the Appreciator 14:03, 6 February 2012 (CST)
 * Well, if we do have to cut out one or the other, I think keeping Mt. Aleph and ditching the Golden Sun would probably be a good idea. Hopefully we can come up with a way to keep both, but if we can't... As for your other ideas, I don't have any real objections, but I'd also like to mention an alternative: Keep the title centered and move Mt. Aleph over to the side (and probably use the Djinn in the leftover space, of course). I don't know if the image is wide enough to make this a reasonable course of action, but I thought I should toss the possibility out on the table. The World&#39;s Hungriest Paperweight 17:26, 6 February 2012 (CST)
 * Just to verify, it is This image of Djinn that you are referring to, right? ~ dkpat 15:55, 7 February 2012 (CST)
 * 0_o Whoa. It didn't really occur to me that really existed! I was actually thinking about these stock images. But now that you brought those other ones up, it's possible your images might work even better. Erik the Appreciator 18:13, 7 February 2012 (CST)
 * Looks like you guys have had a deep discussion about this. I've been off for awhile. I looked at the images so far. I like the title on the right (like how the current one is not centered). I find centered things to be a bit boring. Looking forward to the final product! :D Chinkycandie 04:59, 10 February 2012 (CST)

Here is a updated layout suggestion. Layout2 This takes into account the suggestion to put the logo to the right hand side, and the non-transparent content background which seems to be wanted. Also, I moved Aleph up, and amazingly, both Aleph and the sun fit in the picture! Take a look, I think this one will satisfy most people who have talked here. ~ dkpat 12:08, 16 February 2012 (CST)


 * It does look nice, but something still seems off. I think it's all the empty space on the other side of Mt. Aleph. Unless you have something planned that you haven't told us, we'll want to decide what to do with it. We could still use the Djinn, like Erik suggested, or we could move Mt. Aleph over just a little bit (any farther than the "one-third mark" might be too much). At the very least, we should consider putting a tad more space between Mt. Aleph and the title. Or am I overthinking things? The World&#39;s Hungriest Paperweight 14:07, 16 February 2012 (CST)
 * What he said :P Chinkycandie 03:27, 17 February 2012 (CST)