User talk:Erik the Appreciator

ROMs
I know I'm probably poking at a rather hefty gorilla with this, but just curious as to what our course of action will be in regards to any media we would normally acquire by way of ROM images... Don't want to end up like Seribii.net, if you know what I mean. Caasi 01:44, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Are you referring to the cease and desist controversy over a month back? The full story with that was that right around/shortly after the release of Pokemon Black and White and the start of the fifth generation, Nintendo officially held it to be a violation of their intellectual property for unofficial sources like fans to post screenshots of the game right at that point in time, and on this basis they warned the two most prominent Pokemon fansites on the net - Serebii and PokeBeach - to take down the images showing all the newest Pokemon and in-game screenshots from late-game and the like. As far as anyone can discern, the ultimate reason Nintendo ended up doing that when they didn't do such a thing in all the previous generations is that by now, Pokemon has indeed grown into such a world-class franchise that the world's eyes are constantly on it, and so Nintendo was attempting to dissuade day-one visual spoilers. (Though it does seem that as the future progresses and events like the English release of B&W take place, it would become more and more okay for fansites to post said visual material.)


 * PokeBeach's webmaster wrote an extremely detailed account of it all in this news story - very long, but if you didn't read it, I'd advise you to if you're concerned about ROM screenshots and stuff. But one of the main points is that none of what Nintendo was being all weird about was motivated by the fact that the offending screenshots were taken through ROMs.


 * It's hard to say how relevantly this applies to Golden Sun: Dark Dawn and the ability to post screenshots from the ROMs of the Japanese version, considering things like Golden Sun being nowhere near as much of a lucrative franchise (but it's still a notable property nonetheless, given that it's always in GFAQs' Top Ten DS games for FAQs and message boards). We wouldn't know until we're legally warned whether posting screenshots of late-game content right away opens us up to C&Ds even if we claim the images as Fair Use and specify how the images were created in the images' descriptions; perhaps all we can be reasonably sure of is that we're safer posting English-language screenshots from the English ROM once that is released over here in a month. Since this is ultimately an English-speaking site for American readers, I suppose we should try to dissuade people from posting Japanese-language screenshots everywhere for the next month... Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 05:37, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the read. It kind of fell out off my radar for a little while, and was nagging at me as November 29 came closer. That aside, the images without text would be somewhat appropriate, I assume? Caasi 21:24, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I dunno about how much text would have to do with the whole equation... Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 21:25, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Apologies, I suppose I'm on a different tangent now: I'm referring to any images that might pop up regardless on the wiki and whether these should be dissuaded/encouraged for containing/lack of Japanese text, in line with your American readership statement. An opinion on Japanese release content in general would be helpful. Caasi 21:40, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm. It probably wouldn't be a problem to have screenshots with Japanese-language text on it if the same scenes from the English version can be screenshotted later. It depends on how necessary various users of the wiki feel to have certain images now rather than in a month. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 22:02, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Orgins of Sheba "maybe" confirmed.
This seems to confirm that Sheba is indeed from Anemos, I was just wondering if this should be waited until it is postively confirmed before any any edits to Sheba's page ensue. I will also post the the translation of the section that says the info if you want me to. Ok here it is. Ok then i'll go add it to the speculation part of the page for now.

Will the Secret Behind Sheba's Birth Become Clear?

Hiroyuki: ... I wonder if it will. Shugo: I wonder (laugh).

Sheba, who fell from the sky, traveled with Felix to search for the secret of her birth, but she ended up empty-handed. Did the Anemos village she fell from disappear from the sky, too...?

Sheba: Felix remembers... I have a reason to be traveling with you...


 * What exactly all that text there translates to is important, so you should post the translated text here first so that I can see it before we do anything else. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 01:05, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * That strongly hints at it, yes, but all that should amount to at this point in time is to support what the Speculations section of the Sheba article currently says about her. This Translation should probably be put at the bottom of the Speculations section. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 01:34, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Spoilers and stubs.
Well, after having the ending boss spoiled for myself, I have to ask what our course of action will be on articles like this. I mean, I understand that the page will reappear, like Noble's would have, but it doesn't even have the accurate name of the character. I know we have to let things like this slide more than back at E3, but... Caasi 20:31, November 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I should warn you that when you're on a site like a user-contributed wiki, trying to avoid spoilers on the upcoming big product of the wiki's subject matter is like stepping through a minefield, and the only real way to avoid the mines is to not step into the minefield at all, if you catch my analogy. But the plausibility of getting lots of spoilers for a possible Golden Sun 3 is something I accepted long ago as I was starting out on the wiki; even though at the moment I don't know yet where the final boss battle has been said to take place, I'm pretty sure it's only a matter of time before someone else tries to post it and I come to know about it before I should. (Though to be frank, I seriously was expecting a lot more of a flood of Japanese-version information to be put into the wiki by various IPs trying to be helpful. I'd say we've so far been quite lucky and mercifully unspoiled.)
 * As for the actual page itself, perhaps Slax or someone else with the Japanese version can answer for us: Is this guy referred to by any name throughout the game? That's really the only issue in an otherwise technically logical page to have. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 23:30, November 2, 2010 (UTC)

Slax is certainly our most viable candidate, it's moreso the IP problem that worries me, and that the contributions they make are less than accurate due to translation. Can't be avoided, but you are right, we have had it quite good, and this is a wiki, after all... Basically, is our policy to now add whatever we know about the story from the Japanese release date on? Caasi 00:01, November 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I really don't know what's the best way to go about it. I guess start new "introductory versions" of articles for anything new like previously unmentioned characters, towns, summons, etc., and then only complete them with their respective spoiler material once the English version is released? I'm going to define an "introductory version" of a page as a page that is like Heart right now, which isn't truly a spoiler because it doesn't have information like whatever happens with her later on. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 00:18, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

His name is *probably* porutemono, or something like that. I can upload what I think is his database entry if desired. Translation not done by me. Slax01 09:47, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

Unleash Images
Thanks for the walkthrough for uploading pictures onto articles. Huge help! Too bad these are all gonna be taken down in about a week; I mean, Dark Dawn is coming out on Thursday/Friday, so then the English pictures can be uploaded on and replaced with the others. Oh well, now I can use what I learnt today to hep upload the English Unleashes onto Golden Sun Universe =D

Again, thanks a bunch, SonicTurbo97 18:27, November 24, 2010 (UTC)SonicTurbo97SonicTurbo97 18:27, November 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Anytime, but I've got even more upload walkthrough for you: any image can be replaced with an updated version. When you go to an image's page, you'll see near the bottom an option called "Upload a new version of this file". When you start taking the same Unleash images off the English ROM, simply use that feature so that updated English language images will take the same names as the current Japanese images like File:Bad Omen.jpg. That way, you won't have to upload separately named images and go through the trouble of replacing each image on an article by article basis, and I won't have to delete leftover Japanese images that aren't used anymore. For each image you upload the new version of, then click on the Edit button in the image's own page so you can change the "Japanese" in "A screenshot of the Japanese version of Golden Sun: Dark Dawn" summary text into "English". It would also help to add "Taken myself with a DS emulator" at each of these times, just so the image page's summary will be complete. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 18:47, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

Curiously
Well right off the bat, I'll let you know who I am, so you know where this is coming from. I'm the same Axiomist that operates WiKirby, and had a founding role in NIWA. (Nintendo Independent Wiki Alliance) I pretty much balance my online work with WiKirby and NIWA stuff. Anyhow, lately there's been some talk of NIWA needing a Golden Sun Wiki to fill that gaping hole in what wikis are offered there.This brings us to a forked road, we could go through all of the trouble of building one up ourselves, or (what we'd really prefer) include Golden Sun Universe. I'm positive you and the Golden Sun community are aware of SmashWiki, Donkey Kong Wiki, Animal Crossing City, Pikmin Fanon, Pikipedia, and Arwingpedia moving from Wikia after the Oasis and Terms of Service mess. Its a shame it happened, but its not like Wikia didn't know the communities were unhappy with the changes being forced on them. They simply placed money over the community, again.

I haven't looked around here much before, so I have no idea how you guys feel about the matter. I've talked to quite a few NIWA senior staff members, and Archaic (owner/webmaster of Bulbapedia & Bulbagarden) himself is willing to host your wiki and even pay the costs of a domain. So no one here will need to come up with any money at all. However, if you do decide to pursue your own hosting and domain, that's cool too. In either case, it would still be your wiki and you'd have full control of it, the main difference is that you'd have more control of it. You could add extensions you want, size the article body however you'd like, implement a skin more suitable, or whatever really; for any of the things no one around here can do, the whole network of NIWA likely has someone that can and will do it.

Well that should be enough to consider at once :p Archaic and I are interested in hearing from all of you guys. If you want to pass messages in private, you can contact us on skype (axiomist or archaic.mukashi). My email is enabled here, but if you want to get ahold of Archaic send to mukashi@bulbagarden.net, include NIWA in the subject and he'll respond to you from his private email addy. Axiomist 05:33, November 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm certainly aware of what various other wikis did in response to the controversy about the Oasis skin, though I don't know anything about this "Terms of Service mess" you mention. Was there a change in its Terms of Service that entails something serious that actually inhibits what kind of content wikia wikis are allowed to have, or something? Do this wiki's thousands of images all tagged with a generic "fairuse" licensing template, as opposed to how many other wikis have a variety of more specific and detailed license templates, now have more risk or whatever? Because when the new look was put in place, it seemed to me like this wiki adapted well, with the background and other theming I had made for it and how the fixed page width doesn't truly appear to make articles screwed up in space and infobox terms (in my perspective, anyway). Literally probably the only thing about Oasis I don't like is how photos always have an "Added by [user]" notice in their thumbnails.
 * I frankly never considered doing what you're now offering, but right now I'd need to know about whether there are advantages concerning, I dunno how else to describe it, "image-licensing security" that NIWA offers over Wikia. Thanks in advance for explaining... Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 06:09, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * We realize you did the best you could with the skin based on their requirements. I wouldn't think this is how you would want the wiki to look if given a chance to work with limits of your choosing. One thing in the works from NIWA is the creation of our own license. Archaic teaches at a college and is familiar with the legal writing necessary. As it is now, we simply go with GFDL and CCBYSA, GFDL protects your content from theft by imposing unreasonable limits on the second party. The terms of use changes (so far) are spelled out here by Carter Sannse here. No mention of the image deal, other than that Admins are not allowed to remove the uploader's attribution. As a commercial for-profit site, Wikia might be held to different terms than a non-profit fanbased wiki. But I'm no expert on licensing matters. my main contact for that isn't online tonight. My basic understanding is that lines are drawn when it comes to profit, and fair use generally means, a few sample images from say a illustrated book; copying the entire book would be a violation. Anyway, both current licenses are for general works including music and art. The NIWA license is intended to be specifically crafted for what we do. Since that's been one area that interested me the least other than having it done; I haven't kept up with the progress on it. I'll try to find out what's going on. Axiomist 06:37, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * True, this skin is part of that adaptation I did for the sake of not looking bad. But it does sound like there are various ways this wiki would benefit from what the different NIWA setup offers. Since this alliance of Nintendo wikis looks like it will be something mainstream and popular, and since this wiki is getting a relatively large amount of traffic from the big upcoming Golden Sun game release, it does seem like a good opportunity... I just wonder how much work that's going to entail and what happens with the "copy" of the wiki that would be "left behind" on Wikia. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 06:49, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately it is quite a lot of work. We do have an experienced slate of people that moved from the other wikis, Greenpickle and Adam have refined some scripts and tools using Wikia's own export and MediaWiki's importing. So it would be easier to do than the last migrated wiki, and much easier than the first :p The only real work would be skinning the new home. On that, although WiKirby and MetroidWiki.org have great skins, we haven't found more people with enough free time to devote to a new skin. I'm certain Steve would offer tips on how he created the skins for those two wikis, if you or anyone else wanted to be dedicated to that task. Steve has been working on a custom skin for ZeldaWiki, StarFoxWiki, and Animal Crossing Wiki, so I'm not sure he'll be free immediately.
 * From what I've gathered concerning the other wikis that left, Wikia refuses to remove the copy. But actually making the copy and running with it is fair game if the community of active editors agree. TFWiki.net and Wikia's Transformers Wiki are a pretty good example of what happens. The bulk of the community moved and the independent wiki is extremely customized and leading the article count by ~5000 articles. The main pages of those two wikis pretty much say it all. Sad but true, many people are driven to work on what they see as the better looking site. I learned that a long time ago and have been making WiKirby's Main Page look as good as I can.
 * Well, it's time for me to uncharacteristically get some sleep. I notified others in NIWA to this discussion to see if they can help clarify any of the above and future points. I think most Wikia wikis thrived with massive inter-organization crosswiki editing and with the sheer number of migrants, the Nintendo related wikis that opt to remain here would see subpar active editors by comparison. Interestingly, the Animal Crossing Wiki is filling with spam. I'd give it 50-50 odds they decide to delete that one to eliminate the hassle.Axiomist 07:27, November 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, it's time for me to uncharacteristically get some sleep. I notified others in NIWA to this discussion to see if they can help clarify any of the above and future points. I think most Wikia wikis thrived with massive inter-organization crosswiki editing and with the sheer number of migrants, the Nintendo related wikis that opt to remain here would see subpar active editors by comparison. Interestingly, the Animal Crossing Wiki is filling with spam. I'd give it 50-50 odds they decide to delete that one to eliminate the hassle.Axiomist 07:27, November 20, 2010 (UTC)

Probably not important, but looking at how Bulbapedia's image pages for its most major images - the official Sugimori artworks for all the Pokemon - use simply worded and straightforward templates to express all the licensing and fair-use-claim stuff it seems to need, I'm personally not so concerned anymore about how all of this wiki's screenshots only have a template to claim an assertion of fair use without going into more specific details.

Now, I wonder if I can be provided any sort of timeframe for what we can expect to happen in the near future in regards to NIWA's aim to add Golden Sun Universe to its collection - like how long do we wait before anything happens or is announced, etc... Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 06:39, November 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * I spoke with Koroku, the owner of Wikimon, since he's been one of the people wanting to create a Golden Sun Wiki for NIWA. I figured it'd be best to unite the interested parties with the existing wiki for a migration. That way growth occurs for sure! When we first started talking to Wikimon, I had to put aside that I know nothing of the series and judge the wiki for what it is and decide if we would affiliate with them. I was impressed by a lot of the templates and page formatting they use, I learned to use gradients, scrollbars, and sooner or later tabs. Their wiki also can change colors daily and tons of other awesome features. So as far as a skilled partner for a wiki set up goes, they would be my first choice any day. Greenpickle has expressed interest in the CSS side of a skin creation, which leaves the image work unassigned, as far as I know. Greenpickle is the primary bureaucrat on Pikipedia.com, one of the wikis that migrated from Wikia following the changes, and one of the more technically experienced with moving.


 * The timeframe and announcement would be totally in your community's control. NIWA doesn't force anything, we even have a pending member, but are waiting until they feel ready Fire Emblem Wiki. I think Koroku can have a setup ready in under 24 hours. Axiomist 05:15, November 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Excellent. I would say that, if GSU's going to be moved/copied over to NIWA, it should be before the English release of the new Golden Sun game within 6 days so as to more-or-less herald the start of the new phase of both the wiki and the game series itself. I would hope for that to be the timeframe. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 05:43, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Annnnd hello! Name's Greg, Koroku, whatever you wanna call me. Like Axiomist said, I'm the owner/runner guy of Wikimon. I'm not all that involved in the day to day runnings - I just kinda hang out in the background and make sure things run smoothly. As you can obviously see from my contributions . =P
 * I have a decent server, and we're pretty sure it would be able to hold another wiki or two, so if you'd be interested, I'm game.
 * My terms are pretty simple: I'll do it for free, but you can't make anything off of it. So if you're okay with ads, they're my ads... same with donations. I'll also need admin access for myself and one other person... otherwise, you're pretty free to run with it.
 * Yeah, going independent would give you a lot of freedom. You can add any mods you want to it (I'll give you FTP access if you want it, or you can bug me to add the mods) and pretty much customize it however you want.
 * If you're interested - and the community too - you can reply here or contact me some other way . Hope to hear from ya! Aredmoon 05:53, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I can keep my long-established status as at least a sysop on the wiki's new location, right? XP
 * Of course I don't have any issues with ads and stuff, and neither before nor now would me or anyone else ever have thought of making anything off this site. ;) Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 06:06, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Got another way we can talk? Especially with a 6 day crunch... Aredmoon 06:17, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Afraid not, my talk page here is the only way. But more importantly, of course it doesn't have to be a 6-day crunch at all; that's just something I said assuming that this whole thing was somehow going to be something that could be done quick and easy. Otherwise it really doesn't matter at all if it takes a whole month. Sorry if I put you on edge there. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 06:20, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * There are apparently tools that can help with the move, like this . Also, you should make sure it's okay with rest of the community. If that tool works, we theoretically should be able to complete a move within a day or so.
 * So take a few days and make sure it's cool with everyone - figure out a domain and stuff that you'd guys want to be under (goldensunwiki.com or similar) and we can get it going.
 * Might be fun if we could "open" the new wiki on the release date. :) Aredmoon 06:27, November 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * ps: and don't worry, no staffing issues would be changed. I'd just need access so I can fix stuff if it breaks. :D
 * Alright, I'll leave this space below open for other users to post their thoughts in. This is actually quite a small community right now, with only a few established on-and-off contributors, a few now-inactive contributors who were heavy before, and the only other bureaucrat being User:Dracobolt (the one who gave me my staffing position to begin with =P), who I notified off-site. Generally, with the way RecentChanges has only like a page worth of changes a day, I'm reasonably sure at least some of these folks will see this. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 06:36, November 23, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'm more of an avid reader than the community, but I think this place would benefit from becoming independent. I think you should go for it. SCM - Talk 08:11, November 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * It seems like an awfully convenient transaction to me. My two biggest gripes with the new (and old) interface were the ads, obviously, which really mess up the page layout for IPs/non editors, and the general performance when loading anything in general, in particular the main page. It's been giving me some grief since the update, and I don't know if any other editors encounter it (my cache is pretty tidy most of the time) but I dislike this Oasis regardless. Anyways, if dedicated servers and a wiki running a leaner interface is what NIWA is offering, I am strongly in favor. Caasi 21:35, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

Sure, sounds like a good idea to me, this new skin is absolute rubbish. Slax01 22:25, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

So, what do you guys want for a domain? Let me know so I can grab it :) Aredmoon 00:01, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I'd guess the url name should be as straightforward as goldensunwiki, like several other wikis on NIWA do it (www.mariowiki.com for Super Mario Wiki, www.ssbwiki.com for SmashWiki, etc.). Doesn't matter whether it's a .com or something else, right? That part can be whatever. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 00:25, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

Draco-chan thinks this idea seems quite fine. She hasn't been very active here for a while since her abilities have been exceeded by the scope of what needs done, but if she can help with this move and whatnot, she would be happy to do so. Otherwise, trust in Erik is go! Dracobolt 02:14, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

Okay guys! We're working on this :) goldensunwiki.net has been bought (I have a thing against .com) and we're working on getting it set-up. Could this account please get sysop access so that we can start the copying? I'm going to be sharing this account with pawitp - who is in charge of the technical side of things, and he says he'll run the copy over. :) So yeah, if we could get sysop, that'd be great. Aredmoon 05:32, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing you meant User:Aredmoon getting sysop status? That's what I just did now. Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 05:47, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Awesome! He will get to work when he gets home, and we'll keep you guys up to date. Please don't make any critical edits in the next day or so, as we may be working. Aredmoon 05:59, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure, there won't be any big editing for a period of time. Of course various IPs and minor contributors would make their little edits because they wouldn't be aware of any of this, but I presume that doesn't amount to any issue. Right? Erik Jensen (Appreciate me here!) 06:01, November 25, 2010 (UTC)

Having Trouble
Hey. This is Tanooki1432. I'm having trouble logging in. Any tips? It says there's not email for the account, yet it says the account name is also taken. 99.176.50.127 20:13, 25 November 2010 (CST)
 * Reply with your e-mail and I'll get it fixed. --Aredmoon 20:15, 25 November 2010 (CST)

How ironic it is that this section header kind of fits. So far, Special:Upload says that file uploads are disabled. When will they be enabled? Erik the Appreciator 11:21, 26 November 2010 (CST)
 * Post on my talk page if anything else needs fixing. --Aredmoon 17:37, 26 November 2010 (CST)

NIWA
Hi Erik, I'm Adam from NIWA. I was wondering if you already registered an account over there on our forums? I just needed to discuss a few things with you. Adam 13:04, 27 November 2010 (CST)
 * Registered. Erik the Appreciator 13:09, 27 November 2010 (CST)
 * Thanks, sent you a PM. --Adam 13:11, 28 November 2010 (CST)
 * Just assuring that I've sent you all the information you need now. Erik the Appreciator 13:47, 29 November 2010 (CST)

Psst
When you get the chance, check the Talk on Main page, your feedback would be greatly loved/appreciated. ~ dkpat 23:34, 28 November 2010 (CST)

Sorry for second time bugging you but.. would you by chance have the images from the theme before the current theme at wikia? Or a screenshot, something. lol~ dkpat 01:12, 29 November 2010 (CST)
 * This is something I already posted on the main page's talk page: image
 * This is a cropped image that was taken and used by another user to show how there was a glitch going on with the display of the wiki logo image at the upper left at the time, but you can see that the top of the background was violet and the bars to each of the sections were gold. Erik the Appreciator 01:17, 29 November 2010 (CST)
 * I'm more interested in a banner that, according to axiomist, was present? He said he doesn't mean the logo like what was missing in that picture. He could be delusional and not sure what he is talking about but... lol. ~ dkpat 01:20, 29 November 2010 (CST)
 * What exactly do you mean by "banner"? I'm not sure what you're referring to... Erik the Appreciator 01:27, 29 November 2010 (CST)
 * Unfortunately, neither am I. Banner as in something at the top of the wiki. I can tell you that much, but I'm not too sure what he was talking about otherwise. He said I should look for it soo.. lol ~ dkpat 01:39, 29 November 2010 (CST)

Old wiki
You seem to be in control of things here so, I had a look at the old wiki and people don't seem to have quite grasped the fact we've moved. Should anything be done about this since were missing out on contributions, or the people editing need to wake up and read the massive red sign?Timoks92 22:09, 30 November 2010 (CST)
 * The massive red sign, in this case, is only on the main page, and not everyone that comes to the wiki sees the main page first thing - they may have gotten straight onto an article by googling it. If only one could put in some sort of site message that would display for everyone at the top of every page, sort of like what Wikipedia had been doing with appeals from Jimmy Wales, then at least people would know. Unless that happens, you would have to go onto their talk pages to tell them about it. Erik the Appreciator 22:16, 30 November 2010 (CST)
 * Umm, yeah, I was under the impression that we were going to move the wiki, not duplicate it... Maybe you could just change the skin to say "we've moved, see main page" that'd make it unavoidable. Slax 14:46, 1 December 2010 (CST)
 * Huh. I guess seeing how other wikis move gave the impression that "moving" the wiki elsewhere automatically implied that it would be copied to that new place and the community working on it moves to the new place, while the old, original wiki would be left behind to collect spam. Since I'm unable to do anything with the actual skins, all I can change are the various red boxes at both wikis' main pages. Erik the Appreciator 14:51, 1 December 2010 (CST)

Copyrights
I think that Golden Sun Universe:Copyrights needs to be updated, as it links back to Wikia pages, which is a bit silly for an independent wiki. Also, All Wikia wikis were changed to CC-BY-SA 3.0 over a year ago, which I assume means that license is used here, which means our copyright page is ridiculously outdated. Some Color Mage 04:22, 1 December 2010 (CST)
 * Want me to change it to CC-BY-SA 3.0 and add to the footer? --Aredmoon 15:34, 2 December 2010 (CST)
 * Um, I suppose it should be. Erik the Appreciator 15:36, 2 December 2010 (CST)
 * Okay~ --Aredmoon 15:37, 2 December 2010 (CST)

Poll Voters
Would you like anonymous voters enabled? --Pawitp 07:09, 1 December 2010 (CST)
 * I suppose yes. Erik the Appreciator 11:11, 1 December 2010 (CST)

The Christmas or no poll doesn't seem to work. Marandahir 12:24, 6 December 2010 (CST)
 * Hmm, if that's the case, maybe the whole poll thing should be dropped. Erik the Appreciator 12:26, 6 December 2010 (CST)
 * We'll try and get that fixed. :) --Aredmoon 13:24, 6 December 2010 (CST)

Forums
Hey Erik, i was wondering if you are on the niwa forums? if so, please check out this thread when you are able. Tacopill 17:59, 1 December 2010 (CST).

Redlinks
Is it possible to make redlinks... Red? I've only just realised that they're the same colour as everything else and it makes following my edit chain a bit difficult. Slax 20:44, 3 December 2010 (CST)
 * Uh? But they've been fixed to become red just last night! You must have a cache issue you need to clear with Refresh or something. Erik the Appreciator 22:35, 3 December 2010 (CST)
 * Ctrl+R, Shift+R, Ctrl+f5 to refresh your cache. Tacopill 06:01, 4 December 2010 (CST).
 * yeah I did that yesterday, it's workin now. Thx for the help Slax 16:57, 4 December 2010 (CST)
 * Not a problem. Happy to help. Tacopill 17:21, 4 December 2010 (CST).

Migrate Problems
Hi, I have a question. I have an account on the previous wiki, and I tried using the link "http://goldensun.wikia.com/wiki/Special:EmailUser/GoldenSunWikiMigrate", but it says that there is no send address, even though I have an e mail in my Preferences. What do I do?--68.173.81.224 17:18, 4 December 2010 (CST)
 * Make sure you have verified your email address --Pawitp 18:21, 4 December 2010 (CST)
 * I asked for the code to be sent to my e-mail, but it hasn't arrived yet. How long does it take?--68.173.81.224 20:09, 4 December 2010 (CST)
 * From what I heard, it's supposed to be an automated process that triggers every ten minutes. If it's been much longer than that, you'll just have to try to talk some more with the important people running the system. Erik the Appreciator 20:16, 4 December 2010 (CST)
 * I've asked for it again a while ago and it hasn't come. Do you know who some of the people are that are running that system?--68.173.81.224 21:05, 4 December 2010 (CST)
 * I'm the server tech admin. What's your username? I haven't seen any duplicate request sent by Wikia today. Make sure that you got the 'Email sent' page on Wikia. Also, check your spam box. Pawitp 21:53, 4 December 2010 (CST)
 * My username is Bettafishrule2579. I've checked the spam box, and there's nothing. Email sent page? I don't think I've gotten that either.--68.173.81.224 23:06, 4 December 2010 (CST)
 * No email from that user was received. Try again. What does Wikia tell you after you click "Send"? Pawitp 23:22, 4 December 2010 (CST)
 * Sending a comfirmation code to my email? It says the comfirmation email has been sent.--68.173.81.224 00:49, 5 December 2010 (CST)
 * Well, you should get a confirmation mail from Wikia so that you can verify your email with Wikia. AFTER THAT, you can use that form to register your account with us. Note that we have no control over mail verification of Wikia. Pawitp 01:07, 5 December 2010 (CST)
 * I still haven't gotten the email yet, though. Maybe something's glitched?--68.173.81.224 01:18, 5 December 2010 (CST)
 * Use the backup method and email ARedMoon. ~ dkpat 01:21, 5 December 2010 (CST)
 * He can't. His problem is that his email address is not verified with Wikia. Without a verified email address, Wikia won't send any email, whether it is to the bot or Aredmoon. He needs to get his email verified with Wikia, which is something out of our control. Pawitp 01:32, 5 December 2010 (CST)
 * On Wikia, go to user preferences, then to the User Profile page. Scroll down; you should see a link to verify your email address. Click that, read the email, get your email verified. THEN do the migration steps. I think the whole sequence ends in "???" and "Profit!", though I'm not sure. --Hinoa 01:36, 5 December 2010 (CST)
 * The problem is though, is that I'm not getting the email.--68.173.81.224 01:54, 5 December 2010 (CST)
 * Check your spam box. --Hinoa 01:55, 5 December 2010 (CST)
 * I checked, and it's empty.--68.173.81.224 02:06, 5 December 2010 (CST)
 * That is seriously weird. You should take this up with the Wikia staff, as it is on their end. Maybe there is a glitch in their e-mail processing. We can't do anything until you get your e-mail validated on there, as that is how we verify that you do indeed own the account. --Aredmoon 13:23, 6 December 2010 (CST)
 * Ok, but who do I talk to there?--68.173.81.224 15:28, 6 December 2010 (CST)

Dark Dawn Monster pages
Now that Dark Dawn has been released in North America, I'm wondering how you want to handle the pages for Dark Dawn's enemies. I remember talking about how returning monster lines should have a seperate page from their GBA counterparts before the Wiki moved, but I don't think we made a decision. --Mercury Mech 00:48, 7 December 2010 (CST)
 * I think that maybe all existing monster line pages be moved to titles with (GBA) at the end, even for the lines that don't return in Dark Dawn, just so there's a sense of consistency in how the otherwise somewhat overlapping content between GBA and DD remain separate. Pretty much, I'd propose Slime monster line be moved to Slime monster line (GBA) and a new, separate page be made at Slime monster line (Dark Dawn), for example. Erik the Appreciator 00:54, 7 December 2010 (CST)

Well that makes things clearer a new Dullahan page it is thenTimoks92 01:03, 7 December 2010 (CST)
 * Hmm, I didn't necessarily mean that the specific bosses like Dullahan should be divided too - perhaps the stand-alone bosses that are not part of any monster line could be the only exception to what I was proposing. Bosses that appear in both GBA and Dark Dawn could probably have both parts on the same page, because Dullahan is almost like one character that makes cross-platform appearances, and it's not out of the question that readers who search for "Dullahan" from here on out want both games' information and want it immediately... But I'm curious whether anyone else agrees or thinks Dullahan and Star Magician's pages should be divided. Erik the Appreciator 01:13, 7 December 2010 (CST)
 * Personally I think it might be a good idea to have seperate pages for Dullahan and Star Magician. The problem I see with keeping both of their appearances in the same page is that both pages are fairly long as it is and adding their Dark Dawn appearances will make them even longer and could lead to some confusion. Since you're the main contributor to the wiki Erik, I'm guessing that the final decision is up to you.


 * Also, I've started a monster line page for the Lizard Man's Dark Dawn counterpart. If you're okay with it, I'll submit it and see what you think. --Mercury Mech 01:42, 7 December 2010 (CST)
 * Sure, and sure. =P Erik the Appreciator 01:43, 7 December 2010 (CST)

Psynergy
What the deal with grabbing these icons?Kinda stealing someones work but saves us doing it twice, Yay or nay? http://www.goldensunrealm.com/gsdd/psynergy.php
 * It may have been them that extracted the graphics for the Psynergy icons from the game, but it's ultimately Camelot that created the icons, so it's not really Golden Sun Realm's "work" that we're uploading as fair use. All that's important is that for each Psynergy icon, in addition to crediting Camelot for creating it, we credit Golden Sun Realm for posting it on the Internet. I'd recommend this to be the syntax in the summary box in the upload screen for each image you upload:

An in-game graphic extracted from Golden Sun: Dark Dawn. Original image retrieved from Golden Sun Realm.

==Licensing==


 * Thanks for bringing this up! Erik the Appreciator 11:17, 7 December 2010 (CST)

Classes
As you may notice, I went through a number of the class pages and slapped the Dark Dawn classes nav-box on them (mainly, the ones that were shared). If it turns out that the classes are different (as I already noticed with the Water Seer (a vast improvement in my humble opinion, Douse is far better than Frost)), I'll remove them. I'm also going to leave the all of the analysis sections as is for the time being. Provided the classes aren't vastly different, I doubt they'll change much anyways apart from adding a few of the names here and there. Of course, a lot of this will be pending me getting the game. I put it on my Christmas list so that means I won't be buying it for myself until AFTER Christmas. Tanooki1432 12:03, 7 December 2010 (CST)
 * That looks good. As for the actual page content, it sounds like User:Hinoa's the one that's going to be doing all the class series page editing. Erik the Appreciator 12:15, 7 December 2010 (CST)

???
What happpen to the Dark Adept box? - Worldwarz2
 * What do you mean? It's right here... Erik the Appreciator 11:09, 9 December 2010 (CST)

Yes but when i looked at the user boxes category its not there! - Worldwarz2 2:33, 9 December 2010
 * I see it in the 1st column. Category:Userboxes, under the letter "U". Tacopill 14:35, 9 December 2010 (CST).

Forums Again
To put it bluntly, I don't think we have any and if we do, I can't find them. As a result, people have started using article talk pages for discussion. The closest thing we have would be this page, but it seems rather empty. Just thought I'd point that out. Tanooki1432 15:06, 9 December 2010 (CST)
 * Addendum: I've started work on TRYING to make some forums (see the Recent changes) by taking stuff from similar wikis and reworking it. It's not really working... I'm thinking there is some code missing that we don't fully have here. Tanooki1432 15:30, 9 December 2010 (CST)
 * Yeah, well, unless the technically savvy users like Aredmoon is able to create a forum system with its own actual code, it might be the case that the best we can do is simply dedicate one page as the Forums for the Navigation box to link to. :/ Erik the Appreciator 16:50, 9 December 2010 (CST)
 * All you have to do is ask. :) - Aredmoon
 * That's great, though the new forum menu ought to be below the navigation and toolbox menus. Erik the Appreciator 18:51, 9 December 2010 (CST)
 * Since there really isn't an option to move it, I just took it out. Anything we want can be added to MediaWiki:Sidebar, I guess. --Aredmoon 23:35, 9 December 2010 (CST)

Busy Site
So I finally got Google Analytics working, and it's been running for about 24 hours... already got 1500 unique visitors. o_o Nice... --Aredmoon 14:47, 21 December 2010 (CST)
 * Nice. Tacopill 14:49, 21 December 2010 (CST).
 * Sounds great. Speaking of ways to measure site traffic, when Goldensunwiki.net was being set up weeks ago, I had noticed at the bottom of each page that there was a counter for how many pageviews that page amassed, and that feature disappeared even before this new blue-and-beige color scheme was implemented. I'm going to presume that's something that had to be taken out for incompatibility issues or something, because otherwise I would have thought that to be a cool feature that lets us know which pages are raking in the most pageviews. Erik the Appreciator 15:16, 21 December 2010 (CST)

Image preferences
I have some hi-res artwork available from Dark Dawn and I was just wondering what the preferences here are. How big are the images allowed to be? The ones I have uploaded so far are actually half the size of the original. Is there a preference for .png or .jpg? I could replace the .jpg ones with transparent .pngs, if .pngs are preferred. Thanks. Jello 17:35, 21 December 2010 (CST)
 * 800 pixels high should be the maximum, because that's what Matthew's art is on here. And it should probably be jpg like Matthew's art because that should save space. Erik the Appreciator 17:40, 21 December 2010 (CST)

Official ordering
The "official ordering" is the order they are found in the Djinn guide, which cannot be rearranged. If you're removing incorrect info though, the mars djinn's stats I posted are wrong, I haven't had time to update them though, check Aurora's talk page for details. Slax 18:39, 22 December 2010 (CST)
 * ... *headdesk* Thanks so much for telling me that. Alright, I'll be focusing on giving the basic info for all the Dark Dawn Djinn. Erik the Appreciator 18:42, 22 December 2010 (CST)

Main Page
1st, can we remove the big red alert now? It has been a while since we moved, and surely most people who were active have registered by now, there is still a link on the wikia website going here with instructions on how to register here.

2nd, can we make the boxes rounded? I think it clashes a bit with the skin having squares with the rounded skin. ~ dkpat 23:53, 27 December 2010 (CST)
 * Yeah, the big red alert should be removed by now, and I suppose the main page boxes should be made rounded. Speaking of rounding, though, there's still the issue of the editing tabs on each page having only their lower-right corners rounded a lot while their other three corners are right angles. Making all four corners equally somewhat rounded was part of the checklist I had put on the main page's talk page, so is that ever going to be taken care of? Erik the Appreciator 01:21, 28 December 2010 (CST)
 * Heh... the way the skin does it... it is kinda complicated to do that successfully... I think There might be something I can do, but I can't promise it will work. ~ dkpat 01:40, 28 December 2010 (CST)
 * Erm... I'm going to recommend we redesign the main page... a lot. It just doesn't look right rounded. >_> User:dkpat/sandbox besides... when was the last time it had a major overhaul? heh...heh... ~ dkpat 02:06, 28 December 2010 (CST)
 * Well, I guess that could be done. It's several years old from Wikia anyway. Erik the Appreciator 02:10, 28 December 2010 (CST)
 * Should we move this conversation to the forums? Or a more public place at least, it is a big thing, redesigning the main page. ~ dkpat 02:21, 28 December 2010 (CST)
 * Well sure! Erik the Appreciator 03:24, 28 December 2010 (CST)
 * Created, go post w/e you want :P ~ dkpat 03:43, 28 December 2010 (CST)
 * psst.. Erik, do you have another way I can talk with you? a skype or msn would be great. or email/PM, it works... Want to talk to you a little bit ~ dkpat 19:42, 28 December 2010 (CST)
 * I only have email, I'm not on anywhere else. Erik the Appreciator 19:57, 28 December 2010 (CST)
 * Well, actually you can do it. I was going to ask for temporary admin privileges so I could edit the skin a bit but... I figured out the code in advance now soo... you should be able to do it. (forgot about custom user styles) Can you edit the page MediaWiki:goldensunwiki.css so that is has this as its content:

That should fix the edit icons. ~ dkpat 20:13, 28 December 2010 (CST)
 * I don't get the impression that my copy-pasting of it into there worked for what you're doing... Erik the Appreciator 20:19, 28 December 2010 (CST)
 * -sigh- it is supposed to... it seems the skin css file is overriding the custom style.. which it is supposed to be the other way around... I guess the only way to fix it is to send the file to Aredmoon with changes made. I'll see about getting that done. ~ dkpat 20:25, 28 December 2010 (CST)

I think the layout of the page I like best is this: http://homesrv.dkpat.net/gsulayout.html It gives a good bit of room for customization/rounded edging. I'm sure you've seen my progress towards this layout already, I just wanted to show you what i'm going for, and get your thoughts ~ dkpat 23:51, 28 December 2010 (CST)
 * I approve of all of it. It's like, there's no real way that could go wrong. Erik the Appreciator 00:04, 29 December 2010 (CST)
 * lol, thanks! Take a look at my working page User:dkpat/sandbox/mainpageedit, that is the layout I have been envisioning for a while. ~ dkpat 00:23, 29 December 2010 (CST)
 * That looks really great. Erik the Appreciator 01:33, 29 December 2010 (CST)
 * Thanks again. lol Don't worry, It will be filled in with some colors at some point. I was wondering If you could take a look at the templates that haven't been created that it is using and see If you can get some content for them. Review the existing templates too of course. Don't feel rushed to do this or anything, We've got time. ~ dkpat 02:33, 29 December 2010 (CST)
 * Keep tabs on the discussion please, (maybe watch the page?) User_talk:dkpat/sandbox ~ dkpat 14:24, 30 December 2010 (CST)
 * Ok, I suppose it is good, Do I have your blessing to make the change? Or should we wait? ~ dkpat 15:53, 30 December 2010 (CST)
 * Well yeah, there's nothing we're really waiting for. Erik the Appreciator 15:57, 30 December 2010 (CST)

Interwiki Links
Sorry to always be bugging you :P But... I am requesting admin privileges to updates the inter wiki links. A lot of the current links don't even need to be here and NIWA wiki links need to be added. Of Course, It doesn't have to be me who does it, you could do it too, I just thought maybe you were busy elsewhere. If you would prefer to do it yourself, I'll post a table of the links we need to add ~ dkpat 14:56, 29 December 2010 (CST)
 * Don't worry, I deem you trustworthy enough to have admin rights. If adders of content like me are the Jenei and the readers of the site are the Fori, then you'd be the Exathi because you're skilled in crafting things that make the content work. =P Erik the Appreciator 15:05, 29 December 2010 (CST)

Sure this doesn't really belong here but... First, Thanks for making me an admin! :D (do you intend it to be perma or just temp...? sorry for being straightforward with that) Second, take a look at the main page edit User:dkpat/sandbox/mainpageedit and check the comment at the discussion User_talk:dkpat/sandbox. And finally, I think we should install the NewUserMessage Extension. That gives that welcome message on every new user's talk page. It is a nice little thing to do in my opinion, plus it can possibly help improve the quality of edits. We need Aredmoon to install it. ~ dkpat 20:37, 29 December 2010 (CST)
 * Hot damn, that looks extremely promising. And I made that speech with my previous post because I had intended for you to stay admin. ;) I didn't realize welcome messages could be automated like that, that would've really helped a while back. Erik the Appreciator 20:47, 29 December 2010 (CST)
 * Only reason I know about it is a lot of the other NIWA wikis have them automated. If you have any suggestions for the main page, Or maybe the featured article project we will be starting, It would be amazing If you could jump on them. Thanks! ~ dkpat 20:58, 29 December 2010 (CST)
 * All ya need to do is ask, and maybe I'll possibly do it if I get around to it. ;) Installed. --Aredmoon 01:26, 30 December 2010 (CST)
 * It works too! (tested with a new account) I updated the welcome template and you can see it... here! ~ dkpat 02:24, 30 December 2010 (CST)

Catergorization
I've decided to evaluate and reorganize the wiki categories. There are a few things I think are good... but I'm not positive on them. Please take a look at User:Dkpat/Category (I made a little list of changes so far at the top for readability reasons) and let me know what you think of those changes. ~ dkpat 04:08, 31 December 2010 (CST)
 * Wow, that's hardcore of you to do such a thing. Implementing all that onto the wiki's thousand-plus pages would be an enormous benefit, but an equally enormous task too... Erik the Appreciator 11:24, 31 December 2010 (CST)
 * yeah.. It was bugging me to a slight degree, So I mapped out the whole thing (mostly). I'm not positive if the Games Category is properly named. It just doesn't sound quite right to me. I am certainly open to suggestions (particularly with the games thing)~ dkpat 13:16, 31 December 2010 (CST)
 * Isn't that what Category:General basically tries to encompass, though? Erik the Appreciator 13:23, 31 December 2010 (CST)
 * General looked to me to try to encompass everything in the wiki. since Psynergy, Djinn, etc. are all sub categories of general. I was trying to figure out a better term for a category for this. ~ dkpat 13:27, 31 December 2010 (CST)
 * Um, then "main series"? "General media"? What prevents "Development Team, Game Mechanics, Related Media" from being under "Golden Sun series" and is instead alongside it? Erik the Appreciator 13:31, 31 December 2010 (CST)
 * I was taking Golden Sun Series to be the games... I suppose we could reverse those two and it be perfect (xD) Soo... Golden Sun Series < Games, Related Media, Development Team, Game Mechanics ~ dkpat 13:33, 31 December 2010 (CST)
 * Right, that should be it. Erik the Appreciator 13:35, 31 December 2010 (CST)
 * I'm not quite sure I understand why we have so many different categories such as Quest Items, Important Items, Unique Items, and Rare Items. If you could explain your reasoning for having all those, It would be great. ~ dkpat 15:07, 31 December 2010 (CST)
 * Out of those particular four, "Quest Items" seems like an unnecessary one that someone apparently added. While Unique items were meant to categorize the items that you could only have at most one of at the end of The Lost Age even after having used Password data transfer, that category probably doesn't work so well anymore now that there is a third game to consider (even though it's separate from the GBA games, most of the previous items return in Dark Dawn, some now unique within Dark Dawn itself even though they weren't unique on GBA and others formerly unique now able to be acquired in multiples). Important Items and Rare Items categories should go on the articles for Important items like Anchor Charm and rare items like Healing Fungus, simple as that. Erik the Appreciator 15:26, 31 December 2010 (CST)
 * Yay! Got rid of a few of them like I was hoping would happen. :P I'll make those changes to my Category tree. Also, care to explain why exactly we have categories like "Mars Based Offenses"? I mean I understand the concept behind it.. but I'm not sure we need it... we categorize most things there with a Mars category already (or will soon) The only thing that would be left without is weapons, which I'm not sure need that anyways. ~ dkpat 15:42, 31 December 2010 (CST)
 * Hmm, well, even if Mars-based offenses are removed from pages that have Mars Psynergy, Mars-based Unleash effects, Mars-based summons, and offensive Mars-based Djinn unleashes categories, would those categories be able to make use of Mars-based offenses as a meta-category for them? Erik the Appreciator 15:58, 31 December 2010 (CST)
 * hmmm....well... Only problem with that is not all Mars Djinn/Psynergy is offensive. I'm not totally against the category, I just don't want something categorized as mars multiple times. hmm...~ dkpat 16:07, 31 December 2010 (CST)
 * Soo... any suggestions on this? ~ dkpat 17:20, 1 January 2011 (CST)
 * Well, either put Mars-based offenses on all of the Psynergy pages, or create Offensive Mars Psynergy and put it on all of them. Erik the Appreciator 17:41, 1 January 2011 (CST)
 * In that case, imma leave them be then. It isn't too bad I suppose. ~ dkpat 17:59, 1 January 2011 (CST)

Small Request
I would like to request permission to have FTP access to the wiki. I keep finding little bugs with the skin, and then they bug and bug me. lol, plus, that would make two people with such access: Myself, and ARedMoon. This would speed up the process of Skin fixes, etc, since I am the creator, i make the changes, then I would be able to immediately update it, instead of having to contact aredmoon in order to perform that. ~ dkpat 18:25, 1 January 2011 (CST)
 * On a similar topic to this, Could we add back the Favicon from when on Wikia? The rest of NIWA is already using that to represent us. (plus it just makes it easier to identify thee wiki in comparison to other page I have open) ~ dkpat 18:39, 1 January 2011 (CST)
 * I don't know how to do that, though; I don't see any "FTP" option in the user rights screen that I used to give you admin status. Aredmoon is probably more knowledgeable on this than me.
 * And funny enough, I don't even know what "Favicon" is, but I'm pretty sure there's nothing wrong with adding it back. Erik the Appreciator 18:43, 1 January 2011 (CST)
 * FTP access isn't a wiki option, it is access to all files on the server. (it would be like being able to see files in a folder) and the favicon was the "G" that displays in the bookmarks menu beside the webpage. ~ dkpat 18:45, 1 January 2011 (CST)
 * Right, well, I know nothing about accessing all of a server's files. That, along with the favicon thing, seem like things that are out of my field, and only the users that helped migrate the wiki from Wikia would know. Erik the Appreciator 18:51, 1 January 2011 (CST)

Wikia
take a look at the wikia wiki.. They have taken it upon themselves to remove our information regarding the move. See your talk page, followed by hers: User_talk:Sarah_Manley. I would like to note that we had users that came over the very day she removed the banner (something is not working with external links as I found out from this... I'm trying to work on that.)~ dkpat 17:45, 7 January 2011 (CST)
 * Hmm, yes, now I'd pretty much figure that it really doesn't matter at this point what happens with the old wiki at this point, whether it gets vandalized, whether different users will take that wiki up in our places, and whether or not it links to this new version of the wiki anymore. By this point in time, I think I can say wiki can get by well enough without needing to continue advertising it on the old one... BTW, the old wiki is supposed to be "Golden Sun Wiki", but the wiki wordmark image at the top is still the "Golden Sun universe" version even though I tried reuploading an appropriately altered version of the wordmark here some time ago. That's the issue that really needs to be fixed. Erik the Appreciator 18:30, 7 January 2011 (CST)

Kraden's Temple
We are affiliates with them, are we not? (on their website they list us as an affiliate) Can you contact them asking for a banner to represent them on our main page? oh if you would prefer not to, could you direct me to the right place? ~ dkpat 09:19, 6 February 2011 (CST)
 * Well, I'm not sure if asking them for a banner will be necessary because another Golden Sun forum that is affiliated with them has this banner, which I'll hotlink for you to make a link with:
 * http://thelostwaters.com/images/aff/tok.jpg
 * Erik the Appreciator 12:11, 6 February 2011 (CST)